Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: ridgeback68
Yeah but I looked at it this way - the shooting war hadn't started yet and I flew in international airspace between those two countries...[:)].

Yea, that's easy to forget with US/ROK/Japan set to 'hostile' at scenario start. First thing I did was set posture to 'unfriendly' and set patrol areas and ROEs to avoid any premature 'misunderstandings'.

However, I found it hard to resist the temptation to say "Good enough, start the fireworks"—you get 6 hours, so I figure at least half that should be prep before the balloon goes up, and the more time you spend doing that is less time spent fending off the counter-salvo. But then you also wanna give your slow-moving ground-based LACMs a good head start and the trigger finger itches whenever those low-hanging satellite buzz overhead.

I think a lot of the problems I had with fuel usage were a result of my habitual sneakiness in mustering bomber and attack formations at low level. Next play-through I think I'll send them cruising at high altitude in ambiguous directions and hope to trigger as many intercept missions as possible to wear em thin ("Just a drill, nothing to see here folks!"). But I just can't fathom sending all my Badgers through the Luzon strait without a significant long-range fighter escort—first, the AI just isn't equipped to cope with it; the Philippines may roll over and the Americans won't pull the trigger, but realistically Taiwan might take one for the team and start shoot them down. At the very least there should be a significant number of fighters waiting for their missiles when they get in range...

Hey jmax, don't overthink it. [:)] It is what it is - the fact is that Taiwan and Philippines are not players in this scenario and as long as you play within the boundaries of the scenario you can do whatever you want.

A couple of other things to note:

- this is a pre-emptive strike and while the US and allies may be at a heightened state of alert, like putting a CVBG in the area, the bullets haven't started flying yet. It's like a 2018 Chinese "Pearl Harbour" style surprise attack - you can be patient and spend time building up a picture of what's happening with the ELINT from the AWACS and your own satellites and getting your assets in place. Then when it's time - unleash hell. 6 hours doesn't seem like much but it's plenty of time.

- shooting down US satellites doesn't seem to trigger a hostile response from the US. I imagine the US are issuing diplomatic protests to the Chinese aggression but haven't put themselves on a war footing just yet.

- sending the Badger's down south is out of range of the available EW radar coverage and you are just exercising your "freedom of navigation" rights! The KD-20's have a 1,000+ nm range which is well out of range of any EW system so they wouldn't be detected until they are near their Guam targets. Even if Guam had a CAP the number of inbound missiles would swamp the defences.

- If you *really* wanted to escort the Badgers past Taiwan then I imagine you could use your tankers to keep some Flankers fueled up. The Badgers don't need refueling. They have the legs to make it easily even if you use bursts of low level flying.

- The Flounders do not have air-to-air refueling capability and have relatively short legs if flying them at low level. You have to be careful with their management but they can make it to within range of Okinawa and get the hell out before any counter-air response is launched.

It's a challenging scenario but it's a lot of fun when you do crack it. If this is a true reflection of the forces the PRC can muster then it's more than a little scary...

Edit: spelling (again).

Don't overthink it? But that's half the fun for me! It's an overthinking kinda game [;)]

I like to do a bit of roleplaying in my head with CMANO, which requires a lot of self-imposed rules. And while this scenario is brilliant in terms of balance and unit composition, it just feels pretty unrealistic in a number of ways, which may be a necessary sacrifice for the sake of making it fun to play—my point is that the AI scripting could be improved in terms of coordinating appropriate responses to certain moves, conserving Reagan's ship-borne ABMs, and so on. If it were me I'd probably enforce some No-Navigation zones, but again, that wouldn't really add anything and would detract from the fun. [:)]

I've been overthinking about this a lot actually, and I just had a wild idea—been waiting for the new features in Chains of War to restart my own project, Breaking the Chain—looking forward to seeing different firing solutions for "Salvo", because I'd like to rebuild this from the other side, and recreate some of those strategies as AI scripts to increase responsiveness to player moves. It occurred to me this could work both ways—improving the responsiveness of the AI in both scenarios using a rock-paper-scissors approach to different tactics.

Uh..some days you just want to take up goldfarming...Is that still a thing? Anybody know?

Mike

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Uh..some days you just want to take up goldfarming...Is that still a thing? Anybody know?

Mike

Haha find a way to recreate blockhain math in minecraft and we'll pan for bitcoin [:D]

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Uh..some days you just want to take up goldfarming...Is that still a thing? Anybody know?

Mike

It's a thing. But mostly a thing done by bots nowadays [;)]

ORIGINAL: CCIPsubsim

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Uh..some days you just want to take up goldfarming...Is that still a thing? Anybody know?

Mike

It's a thing. But mostly a thing done by bots nowadays [;)]

Might be the thing for me then [:'(]



Mike

ORIGINAL: jmax

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Uh..some days you just want to take up goldfarming...Is that still a thing? Anybody know?

Mike

Haha find a way to recreate blockhain math in minecraft and we'll pan for bitcoin [:D]

Ah don't deal in bitcoin although suspect if hubris makes the world go belly-up it might be the way to go.

Mike

Well, I got an 'Average' score of 1790 on my second try.

SPOILER ALERT:

*
*
*

At some point your constellation of Yaogan satellites will buzz Benfold, Kongo, and Reagan almost simultaneously. That's when I flipped the switch on Korean THAAD and my ASuW Strike missions, followed by IRBM/MRBM in order of distance calculated to achieve saturation over the Sea of Japan just as their BMD-capable ships were busy targeting my ASBM. Held a brigade of DF-26 in reserve for mop up—only targets to survive the first wave were Misawa, the two runways at Osan and the left airstrip at Kadena which was only partially damaged. Sent half my H-6s to Guam via the Luzon Strait and the other half around the top of North Korea to take care of Misawa and target hangars and tarmacs at Yokota and Iwakuni. 16 LACMs were enough to destroy both runways at Andersen with a healthy margin and the rest took out hangers. Osan was a tough nut to crack and I never did, though I didn't press the advantage of local air superiority as hard as I might have in escorting my CJ-10. All strike aircraft were ordered to abort attack runs before getting in range. Last three hours were spent shooting (and missing) satellites and swatting SLCM countersalvos.

Not a bad result, but nothing to write Beijing about [8D]

SIDE: United States-Japan-South Korea
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
3x F-15J Eagle J-MSIP
1x A/C Hangar (2x Medium Aircraft)
5x A/C Hangar (2x Large Aircraft)
2x F/A-18D Hornet
3x A/C Hangar (2x Very Large Aircraft)
32x F/A-18E Super Hornet
8x F/A-18F Super Hornet
5x EA-18G Growler
3x E-2C Hawkeye 2000
1x CVN 76 Ronald Reagan [Nimitz Class]
2x CG 59 Princeton [Ticonderoga Baseline 3, VLS]
1x DDG 85 McCampbell [Arleigh Burke Flight IIA]
4x FA-50 Golden Eagle
6x F-16CJ Blk 52 Falcon [KF-16C]
2x F-16CM Blk 42 Falcon
6x A/C Hangar (1x Very Large Aircraft)
1x Radar (AN/FPS-130)
1x Radar (ASR-9 GCA)


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
46x RIM-161E SM-3 NTW Blk IIA
34x RIM-161B SM-3 NTW Blk IA
120x MIM-104F Patriot PAC-3 MSE
2x MIM-104F Patriot PAC-3 ERINT
16x MIM-104E Patriot PAC-2 GEM+
35x MIM-104C Patriot PAC-2
65x RIM-174A-2 ERAM SM-6MR Blk IA [Dual I]
36x UGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOM
28x UGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOM
2x 127mm/54 HE-CVT [HiFrag]
4x 20mm/100 Mk15 Phalanx Blk 1B Burst [300 rnds]
38x Mk214 Sea Gnat Chaff [Seduction]
20x Mk234 Nulka
6x Mk59 Mod 0 Floating Decoy
51x AIM-120B AMRAAM
66x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
17x AIM-9S Sidewinder
13x 20mm/85 M61A1 Vulcan Burst [100 rnds]
9x AIM-120D AMRAAM P3I.4
3x AN/ALE-50 [RT-1646/ALE]
48x AAM-4B Kai [Type 99]
16x AAM-3 [Type 90]
3x RIM-66M-1 SM-2MR Blk III
5x AAM-5 [Type 04]
5x SAM-4 Chu-SAM [Type 03]



SIDE: China
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
6x SC-19
36x DF-16B [Penetrator]
11x DF-16B [Submunitions]
24x DF-26C [Conventional]
24x DF-21D [ASBM, Conventional, CSS-5 Mod-4]
24x DF-15B [Conventional, CSS-6 Mod-2]
36x DF-15C [Penetrator, CSS-6 Mod-3]
44x DF-21C [Conventional, CSS-5 Mod-3]
26x DF-16B RV [Penetrator]
11x DF-16B RV [Submunitions]
21x DF-21D RV [ASBM, CSS-5 Mod-4]
20x DF-15B RV [Conventional, CSS-6 Mod-2]
36x DF-15C RV [Penetrator, CSS-6 Mod-3]
24x DF-26C RV [Conventional]
42x DF-21C RV [Conventional, CSS-5 Mod-3]
108x PL-12
176x KD-20 [CJ-10A] ALCM
96x DF-10 GLCM
4x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]
7x PL-10
62x PL-15
5x SA-20a Gargoyle [48N6E]

Great job!

Mike

ORIGINAL: mikmyk
Great job!

Mike

Tanks! Great job on the expansion—having a blast, no pun intended [;)] If I get the chance, I may write an AAR, though I don't wanna give away too much since I'll be applying my insights to designing PLA AI for a "Countersalvo" scenario...

Waiting for a good youtube video...

i give up: this mission is too hard for me.

ORIGINAL: Wasicun

Waiting for a good youtube video...

i give up: this mission is too hard for me.

Yeah, both Stoic Frog and Kushan Gaming posted videos up through the second mission and then seemed to give up. I also would love to actually SEE somebody complete this with 2000 points--not that I doubt it can be done, I just can't do it. I finally managed to get something like 1600 and then just stopped trying. The difficulty curve actually seems to get much easier after this rather odd mission, so I recommend just moving on. (I also would really like to see a video on the third mission, because although I did beat it, I feel like that was mostly just dumb luck.)

Yipee! I beat it!

I followed all of the advice posted so far about not risking aeroplanes and suckering the blk3 missiles by single DF15 launches from the batteries in the North. The big difference is that I've found that large hardened aircraft shelters are worth 100 points each too, and there are a load of them in the Japanese base in the North (Misawa?). I lost two planes who ran out of fuel chasing Tomahawks, but nothing else.

This has kept me busy for nearly two weeks!

Got a Triumph with a score of 2780 - I'm sure I got a couple of runways too, but they don't appear on the list so maybe I didn't!

SIDE: United States-Japan-South Korea
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
4x F-16CJ Blk 52 Falcon [KF-16C]
6x A/C Hangar (1x Very Large Aircraft)
12x A/C Hardened Aircraft Shelter (1x Large Aircraft)
32x F/A-18E Super Hornet
4x F/A-18F Super Hornet
5x EA-18G Growler
3x E-2C Hawkeye 2000
1x CVN 76 Ronald Reagan [Nimitz Class]
1x CG 59 Princeton [Ticonderoga Baseline 3, VLS]
3x Ammo Shelter


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
46x RIM-161E SM-3 NTW Blk IIA
74x MIM-104F Patriot PAC-3 MSE
36x UGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOM
7x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
28x UGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOM
25x RIM-161B SM-3 NTW Blk IA
1x MIM-104F Patriot PAC-3 ERINT
3x MIM-104E Patriot PAC-2 GEM+
20x RIM-174A-2 ERAM SM-6MR Blk IA [Dual I]
8x Mk214 Sea Gnat Chaff [Seduction]
8x Mk234 Nulka
14x AIM-120D AMRAAM P3I.4
35x AAM-4B Kai [Type 99]
22x MIM-104C Patriot PAC-2
1x AAM-3 [Type 90]
8x AAM-5 [Type 04]
19x 20mm/85 M61A1 Vulcan Burst [100 rnds]



SIDE: China
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x J-10A Vigorous Dragon


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
24x DF-15B [Conventional, CSS-6 Mod-2]
17x DF-15B RV [Conventional, CSS-6 Mod-2]
48x DF-21C [Conventional, CSS-5 Mod-3]
43x DF-21C RV [Conventional, CSS-5 Mod-3]
18x PL-15
28x DF-16B [Penetrator]
8x DF-16B [Submunitions]
24x DF-26C [Conventional]
28x DF-16B RV [Penetrator]
8x DF-16B RV [Submunitions]
16x DF-26C RV [Conventional]
50x PL-12
6x PL-10
24x DF-15C [Penetrator, CSS-6 Mod-3]
96x DF-10 GLCM
24x DF-15C RV [Penetrator, CSS-6 Mod-3]
12x DF-21D [ASBM, Conventional, CSS-5 Mod-4]
24x SA-20a Gargoyle [48N6E]
9x DF-21D RV [ASBM, CSS-5 Mod-4]
6x SC-19
102x KD-20 [CJ-10A] ALCM



SIDE: US Satellites
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x
1x


EXPENDITURES:
------------------

Good job Bruce!

ORIGINAL: blkholsun

ORIGINAL: Wasicun

Waiting for a good youtube video...

i give up: this mission is too hard for me.

Yeah, both Stoic Frog and Kushan Gaming posted videos up through the second mission and then seemed to give up. I also would love to actually SEE somebody complete this with 2000 points--not that I doubt it can be done, I just can't do it. I finally managed to get something like 1600 and then just stopped trying. The difficulty curve actually seems to get much easier after this rather odd mission, so I recommend just moving on. (I also would really like to see a video on the third mission, because although I did beat it, I feel like that was mostly just dumb luck.)

Is anybody up for recording a successful run and posting it? The Stoic Frog guy picked the series back up and I got excited thinking I might see a win achieved, but he didn't do so hot.

This was a fun one. Success is all about sequencing and leveraging your cyber attacks. They are well-worth the investment of points if done properly.

I'm not much for videos, but I can talk you through it. Here's how I did it, and I think the only ballistic missiles I had shot down were a couple of the DF-21s headed for the Reagan:

1. Hit Okinawa first. I launched all of my Kh-31P armed aircraft that were within range along with the LACM-armed JH-7s and about half the H-6s against Okinawa, making sure to do the calculations so that all of your aircraft arrive within range of the bases there at about the same time, since fuel will be short for some.

Have your H-6s and JH-7s launch a massive time-on-target salvo of cruise missiles against all the Okinawa bases along with the 48 DF-10s opposite the island (I would target the HASs, which are worth 100 points each; two missiles per is usually sufficient to destroy each). A few seconds before your missiles come in range of the Patriots on Okinawa, I triggered the "Disrupt US satellite communications" cyber attack. This (I think) has the effect of preventing the US early warning satellite (in geosynchronous orbit over southern Siberia, just out of range of your northern ASATs) from detecting the launch of your ballistic missiles. This is crucial, and worth every point you spend. I'll explain why below.

Once the cyber attack is triggered, launch all the DF-15s and -16s opposite Okinawa at the island. Four penetrators per runway should be sufficient, if my memory serves. The rest you can target at more HASs. Also, salvo all of your Kh-31Ps. I fired them all at the Patriots, but in retrospect it would have been better to target the shorter-ranged SAMs as well.

So, the effect of the cyber attack: the US ABM ships will expend all of their SM-3s against your massive ballistics missile salve, but because the US side gets no early warning from their satellite, they will launch too late. All of your DFs will impact before the SM-3s can make an intercept, and the interceptors are thus wasted. Then, if you've timed it right, the Patriots will be fully engaged against the cruise missiles and Kh-31Ps when you DFs hit. Your DFs should catch all the US and Japanese fighters on the runways if you do it this way (this is vital, if they get airborne they will wreak havoc on your cruise missiles). Again, doing it this way every single one of my DFs got through.

2. With Okinawa neutralized, hit Korea next. Use PL-15-armed fighters to clear away the CAP and protect your cruise-missile salvo. Use the few Kh-31P armed aircraft in the north to attack the I-Hawks and other short-range SAMs between your DF-10s and Seoul, the launch all 48 cruise missiles on a direct bearing. When the Patriots are fully engaged against the DF-15s use your cyber attack to shut down the Korean THAAD and then hit both airfields with all your remaining DF-15s and -16s. They should all get through.

3. Hit the four Japanese bases with your DF-21s. There's nothing left to oppose them. Be sure to target HASs as well as runways.

4. Wait for a satellite to get a fix on the Reagen, then launch all your ASBMs at the carrier. Plenty will get through the SM-2s.

5. Plaster Guam with your remaining H-6s, or disrupt the Guam THAAD and use you DF-26 Guam killers (you'll have enough points to move on before you get to this, however).

Hope that makes sense!

I completed the mission!
I cheated but i had a lot of fun!
I edited the campaign save file, adding some (like 80) DF-41 ICBM and a Type 094 nuclear submarine. In the end i wiped out every target (11000 points) without losses: it was cathartic, after 3 failed attempt to complete the mission.

I simply turned off the penalty for losing aircraft. It was far too steep.