Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot
take my empties in for a refund.

If I could get that to work I could fund a remake on my own [:D]

Forget funding. If you want to remake AE, you need Volunteer Programmers, Researchers, etc. And Matrix has to be interested. My 2 cents....GP

Have to agree to disagree Patton.

All the AE folks were volunteers iirc and wanted to make the game better. If what you say is true, then it should be easy to get a new version created.

Since Matrix is a Product support system versus a development house now, if a team was created, I imagine Matrix would have no issue with agreeing to let them try. Assuming NDAs, etc. were all agreed to.

The issue with this approach is getting a team of qualified programs to work for free for 4+ years in their 'spare' time.

Again the model you suggest is already being used for World in Flames so it is not as easy as you think to get done the way you suggest. Life just gets too much in the way for a volunteer group to accomplish this. AE was a miracle and it was not even close to the rewrite people would want today.

Of course, if you wanted to lead the charge in putting a team together, I certainly would be willing to help

ORIGINAL: Rafid

I think the game engine is very mature and would also be afraid, that additional detail would become unmanagable. But interface changes would be high my list, as the game is technically very outdated:

1. Scalable interface: Better scaling with different and modern resolutions, setable and scaling font size.
2. Better window handling (allow multiple open windows for comparison & dragable windows; want to recheck the air group, while the pilot window is open? Just drag it aside).

Since this would most likely require a full interface rewrite using modern technology anyways we might as well do it right and add:

3. A command console like structure for interface commands and then allow (xml based?) user writen addons. This would allow features like an ingame tracker in which you can directly give commands. Some games (e.g. World of Warcraft) do it this way. You can say a lot of negative things about WoW, but the interface and with its easy modability is freacking perfect as a few thousand mods out there can testify.

Since the interface is the most important part of communication with the operating system. I have high hopes, that this would also cure most if not all of the problems we have seen in recent Windows versions.

Better ship a katana with the physical game so weak willed players can choose between a quick seppuku and live-long inflamed carpal tunnel syndrome due to the UI clickfest.

I'm still waiting for one of us to hit the lottery.
Financing a team to write a new AI for such a complex set of possible circumstances, I believe,
would rival the cost of most of the games we play in our small niche.

I wouldn't want to win the lottery to get this made, you are better off getting the right players or team that enjoy this game and making another one. If you get someone that doesn't care and getting paid for this, wont be that great. Infact who ever is in charge on how this gonna be setup and how it gonna play out.

It like some movies out there, that they wanted like this or that, and didn't come out well. This also remind me of Diablo III, since Jay Wilson doesn't have good background on Diablo games, he simply mess with it and make it like trash. It does take a lot of timing and research to do these things. The best parts is having Volunteers like General Patton said up there. Wont be anytime soon, could be three to ten years before something this big get release. Not about manpower either, too much can get in the way and messing things up. Just need the right creative people for the projects.

Don't forget in all this - Gary Grigsby holds the copyright to the game concept so if you want to use the general system of the current game, you must get him on board - and he has said he wouldn't do another one because WITP-AE was so complex (probably a lot of arguing about the necessary compromises).

There would also be a hefty copyright fee ...

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Don't forget in all this - Gary Grigsby holds the copyright to the game concept so if you want to use the general system of the current game, you must get him on board - and he has said he wouldn't do another one because WITP-AE was so complex (probably a lot of arguing about the necessary compromises).

There would also be a hefty copyright fee ...

If somebody wanted to make a new engine from scratch that had the same general model of WitP, you could probably do it without Gary Grigsby. The Microsoft vs Apple case about Windows established that you can reproduce the functionality of a program and as long as you don't use any of the source code, you're OK. A modern remake of WitP from the ground up would end up being somewhat different from the original WitP because the technology of computer programming has come a long ways since the engine for WitP was originally developed. Remember this started out as Uncommon Valor which started development 20 years ago.

If you did want to build something on Gary Grigsby's engine, they will let you for a cut of the proceeds. 2X3 had nothing to do with the development of AE from the original WitP. I think Joe Wilkerson had some early discussions with them, but they pretty much just threw the code over the wall and it was up to the AE team to take it from there.

There are a lot of people who are interested in seeing a new WitP or something else built along the same lines, but even if somebody came forward with a lot of money, the people who did AE are just too busy with other things these days. To develop a new wargame like this, and to do it right, you need a team of people who are passionate about the minutiae of the theater the game is going to cover as well as incredibly organized and willing to spend hours on mind numbing work getting all the numbers right for every unit. Then it would help a lot to get a crew of programmers who also know a lot about what they are simulating. I drew on my knowledge of the war, warfare in general, and engineering of war machines when I was writing code for the game. Everyone involved was also intimately knowledgeable about the existing WitP engine and what it could do.

Just hiring a team of programmers in Russia or India probably won't get you a very good game engine.

Having money for a new game engine might help bring some people on board, but there is expertise that would be nearly impossible to get at any price at this point.

Bill

ORIGINAL: wdolson
... but there is expertise that would be nearly impossible to get at any price at this point.

Bill

and sadly that expertise shrinks every day ...

“Just hiring a team of programmers in Russia or India probably won't get you a very good game engine……”

Or worse, the game design could fall to a young American programmer.

This is why I don’t want to see an AE2.

First, I think the world outside our game, and there is one, has passed us by for AE 2. This game is difficult; it takes applied skills and knowledge acquired through experience. Most people today don’t want difficult, they want instant gratification.

Also, I don’t want to see an AE2 because they will give the game design to some hot shot twenty something computer programmer whose last project was the Muppets attack the Fantastic Four, or some crap like that, and doesn’t know Batavia from Buna or thinks Kyushu is a Sushi bar in Chinatown.

I don’t want to see this game screwed up by some can’t we all just get along whiz kid programmer who, as educated in the current American school system, think social justice trigger warnings are more important than the actual brutal written history. Some of these kids have never even seen a picture of an amphibious ship. When I tell some of my friends kids that I’ve fired a 50 caliber machine gun and thrown live hand grenades they look at me like I was from outer space and I’m not even a combat veteran.

Most of you who play this game know more about the Pacific War and have spent more time thinking about it than the people who actually fought in it. My father, who fought in the Philippines, spent three years in the Pacific fighting the Japanese and then almost 60 years trying hard to forget the horror of it.

If this game goes to an AE2 I want some of you guys or the original team to design it and I don’t think that is going to happen so be glad for what you have right now.

wdolson – thanks for your support of this game.

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


wdolson – thanks for your support of this game.

[&o][&o][&o]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


wdolson – thanks for your support of this game.

[&o][&o][&o]

....GP

ORIGINAL: General Patton

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


wdolson – thanks for your support of this game.

[&o][&o][&o]

....GP

Amen for sure ...

I really wish someone would make a written click by click tutorial of one of the shorter scenario's. I am old, had this game on my hardrive for like 10 years, tried playing some and got so confused and lost.
It looks like a great game and I have watched alot of youtube but then I go to play and forget what happened on the video...the joys of getting older lol.
Well maybe someday it will click.

ORIGINAL: Tusler@Matrix

I really wish someone would make a written click by click tutorial of one of the shorter scenario's. I am old, had this game on my hardrive for like 10 years, tried playing some and got so confused and lost.
It looks like a great game and I have watched alot of youtube but then I go to play and forget what happened on the video...the joys of getting older lol.
Well maybe someday it will click.

Click by click would be a huge undertaking. There is a currently a good one ongoing about the Thousand Mile War (Aleutians campaign). Lots of good maps and other graphics to show what he did and what outcomes were.

I am a geezer myself and find that I have to scan the whole grand campaign map each turn to see what things I need to do. No way can I remember and hop from place to place like some guys here! That said, getting started has a lot to do with just clicking away and finding out what each of the many switches, buttons and hypertext links do. Then, once you have fiddled with the interface enough to remember most of what you need to use, just start a simple scenario and try different ideas. No harm if something you did is a disaster, you can restart from the pre-turn save and change what you did, then see if that avoided the disaster!
It also helps to know some history of the War in the Pacific. When I started learning with the Coral Sea scenario I just tried to duplicate what the Allies did in real life. After the first time through I changed a few things and played again - it was still great fun. [:)]

Thanks I'll find Thousand Mile War (Aleutians campaign) and check it out.

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Don't forget in all this - Gary Grigsby holds the copyright to the game concept so if you want to use the general system of the current game, you must get him on board - and he has said he wouldn't do another one because WITP-AE was so complex (probably a lot of arguing about the necessary compromises).
There would also be a hefty copyright fee ...

...the people who did AE are just too busy with other things these days. To develop a new wargame like this, and to do it right, you need a team of people who are passionate about the minutiae of the theater the game is going to cover as well as incredibly organized and willing to spend hours on mind numbing work getting all the numbers right for every unit. Then it would help a lot to get a crew of programmers who also know a lot about what they are simulating. I drew on my knowledge of the war, warfare in general, and engineering of war machines when I was writing code for the game. Everyone involved was also intimately knowledgeable about the existing WitP engine and what it could do.

Bill

All true, Bill.

Although not nearly as complex as the coding for AE was, creating the artwork to accompany the existing and new units, ships, maps, map symbols, alternating ship and plane art is still a time consuming effort in itself. Glad I'm not a coder!

I think the stars aligned for AE. It was 'special' to say the least. A great group who had intimate knowledge of all the different aspects of everything you thought you knew and an expertise of what you had never thought of before. It was amazing. Many came and went during that time, but all contributed greatly to what is AE. Not sure if that can be duplicated again, but I hope so!

Thanks to all!

TOMALABEL

Well once I get some projects done here, a board game and some addon xpac along with it, I may look into it. I do have some skills and very creative person with ideas, etc.

There a place I can go in that help me design my own games, but wasn't sure if they can help me time to time and there no telling how long this projects can take. I am almost 50yrs old. Doing stuffs like this alone, can be a lot of timing. Like Gary, he did it. So if he can do it, then we can too. Only if you have the time, skills and patience.

Don't care about the money, but it help to pay the bills tho.

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


“Just hiring a team of programmers in Russia or India probably won't get you a very good game engine……”

Or worse, the game design could fall to a young American programmer.

This is why I don’t want to see an AE2.

First, I think the world outside our game, and there is one, has passed us by for AE 2. This game is difficult; it takes applied skills and knowledge acquired through experience. Most people today don’t want difficult, they want instant gratification.

Also, I don’t want to see an AE2 because they will give the game design to some hot shot twenty something computer programmer whose last project was the Muppets attack the Fantastic Four, or some crap like that, and doesn’t know Batavia from Buna or thinks Kyushu is a Sushi bar in Chinatown.

I don’t want to see this game screwed up by some can’t we all just get along whiz kid programmer who, as educated in the current American school system, think social justice trigger warnings are more important than the actual brutal written history. Some of these kids have never even seen a picture of an amphibious ship. When I tell some of my friends kids that I’ve fired a 50 caliber machine gun and thrown live hand grenades they look at me like I was from outer space and I’m not even a combat veteran.

Most of you who play this game know more about the Pacific War and have spent more time thinking about it than the people who actually fought in it. My father, who fought in the Philippines, spent three years in the Pacific fighting the Japanese and then almost 60 years trying hard to forget the horror of it.

If this game goes to an AE2 I want some of you guys or the original team to design it and I don’t think that is going to happen so be glad for what you have right now.

wdolson – thanks for your support of this game.

+1

As I'm sure I've said before, 'be careful what you wish for...'

All I would like is to play it on my win 10
Can't seem to get any of the switches to work for me