Matrix Games Forums

Yes apologies, formatting tripped me up there.

James Taylor, it doesn't take Fire and Rain to destroy a garrison.

No, they don't just disappear, but I don't believe you get enough of a benefit in slowing down the Germans for their cost, even for as cheap as they are. I'd much rather have my research cranking away for the first several turns than station Garrisons that will get wiped out in 1-2 turns by German corps units. They're not even worth the attention from the German Armies/Armor -- I would likely send them right past, knowing my opponent's tech is behind and the garrisons won't hold out for more than a turn with minimal attention.

Garrisons will also provide great opportunity to provide easy experience to German units as they get mopped up, allowing Germans to reinforce select units to Elite levels, if desired.

I'm sorry but I couldn't figure out what CTV stood for. I'm also always willing to learn more about the game so if I've underestimated the garrison units, please enlighten me!

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

No prayer, GJDR? So they just melt away in the face of the Germans, not even requiring an attack?

Have you ever examined the CTVs of garrisons vs corps, soft and hard defense?

The Garrisons don't have a prayer of even slowing down the German advance. I think they're a waste of your resources, frankly. Corps are the cheapest, minimally useful unit. The only use I've found for garrison units is plugging Partisan hotspots when playing as the Germans. They're useless in nearly all other circumstances.

A fair point about the experience accumulation, but experience is easily eroded, especially later under low supply conditions.

CTV = combat target value. Look at the hard defense of garrison vs corps, it is 1. That is what they use as a defense against infantry attack, the same for both.

Further, the corps has 0 for tank defense, while a garrison has 1, that's what they use against a Panzer attack.

Now, knowing that the Red Army is going to be on the defense early in the game, the corps attack values(which are greater than garrisons) will be of little value until the USSR makes the transition to the offensive. So, which one gives you the most "bang for the buck"?

There are some other useful purposes for garrisons later in the game when things get a little more spread out, but early, they're great speed bumps.

Ohh, and GJDR, they don't get wiped out in one or two turns. They're like the energizer bunny, they keep going and coming as they are cycled through the build Q at lower cost than they were first bought at.[:)]

Garrisons do only have max 5 Strength (unless have experience and elite reinforcements), which makes them considerably more vulnerable

Btw do Garrisons and Corps always use hard defense versus Infantry (and Mech - or do they count as Light Tank?) or does it depend on terrain (e.g. whether in a town/city/forest)? This side of things is a bit opaque to me - where can I find this information?

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

A fair point about the experience accumulation, but experience is easily eroded, especially later under low supply conditions.

CTV = combat target value. Look at the hard defense of garrison vs corps, it is 1. That is what they use as a defense against infantry attack, the same for both.

Further, the corps has 0 for tank defense, while a garrison has 1, that's what they use against a Panzer attack.

Now, knowing that the Red Army is going to be on the defense early in the game, the corps attack values(which are greater than garrisons) will be of little value until the USSR makes the transition to the offensive. So, which one gives you the most "bang for the buck"?

There are some other useful purposes for garrisons later in the game when things get a little more spread out, but early, they're great speed bumps.

Interesting information about the CTV and tank defense. Though that really just confirms my strategy of blowing by them with my panzers and letting my corps clean them up once they're in low supply so they can't be rebuilt faster/cheaper.

Also aren't the benefits in CTV for the garrisons over the corps units mitigated by their halved strength values of 5 (6 in some cases) versus 10 for corps? So corps units should be able to last a few turns longer than a Garrison unit, thereby providing a "better speedbump".

I could be convinced to save corps units until the Soviets can begin their counter-offensive, but I think their first priority should be to slow the German advance.

I would be interested in playing against a "Garrison defense" to see how effective it is first-hand. Any interest in a PBEM game?

Not what I would consider as a "Garrison defense" as other units are basically the front holders, garrisons are just kind of a filler.

I'm a bit busy with games right now and hurricane damage, but later, when things kind of gel more with SC, I'll be up for a game if you wish.

I usually play within my little group so I don't have much time for outside endeavors.

It was just a comment to catalyze a little thought, an opinion of what has worked in the past and you know what they're worth (opinions, that is).[;)]

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

Not what I would consider as a "Garrison defense" as other units are basically the front holders, garrisons are just kind of a filler.

I'm a bit busy with games right now and hurricane damage, but later, when things kind of gel more with SC, I'll be up for a game if you wish.

I usually play within my little group so I don't have much time for outside endeavors.

It was just a comment to catalyze a little thought, an opinion of what has worked in the past and you know what they're worth (opinions, that is).[;)]

Sorry to hear you got hit by the hurricane. Hopefully you and yours got out safe! Best of luck with the cleanup.

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

I'm a bit busy with games right now and hurricane damage, but later, when things kind of gel more with SC, I'll be up for a game if you wish.

I hope the damage wasn't too bad and you can get it fixed quickly. [:)]

Bill

ORIGINAL: oxford_guy

Btw do Garrisons and Corps always use hard defense versus Infantry (and Mech - or do they count as Light Tank?) or does it depend on terrain (e.g. whether in a town/city/forest)? This side of things is a bit opaque to me - where can I find this information?

Hi

All units when attacked use their defense value that is the same as the attacker's target type, without exception.

So if attacked by a Hard unit, they will use their Hard defense value.

Bill

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

ORIGINAL: oxford_guy

Btw do Garrisons and Corps always use hard defense versus Infantry (and Mech - or do they count as Light Tank?) or does it depend on terrain (e.g. whether in a town/city/forest)? This side of things is a bit opaque to me - where can I find this information?

Hi

All units when attacked use their defense value that is the same as the attacker's target type, without exception.

So if attacked by a Hard unit, they will use their Hard defense value.

Bill

Okay - and most non-support land units are "Hard", right? BTW what does Mech Infantry attack as? What about Recon, Armoured Train etc.?

Check out the units' types in the build Q, recon is I think soft and AT is light armoured.

Thanks for the well wishes guys, I was lucky, some structural damage, but moisture has not intruded. Have electricity and creature comforts, there's just a gigantic mess to clean up and in 90-90 conditions(temp & humidity) its slow going.

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

Check out the units' types in the build Q, recon is I think soft and AT is light armoured.

Yes, you're correct, also as well as Armoured Trains, Mech Infantry and Anti-Tank also attacks as "Light Armour"

ORIGINAL: James Taylor
Thanks for the well wishes guys, I was lucky, some structural damage, but moisture has not intruded. Have electricity and creature comforts, there's just a gigantic mess to clean up and in 90-90 conditions(temp & humidity) its slow going.

Glad to hear that you weren't inundated!