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Well, it's not a WWII flick, but "Red Dawn" has to be up there on the list of bring-your-own-barf-bag movies.

...and while I'm at it, I'll just take out this Mil(?)Mi-24 Hind with my handy dandy RPG that I've only fired twice in my life...



-Andy

You picked on the germans but how about those Japs?
You gotta love those WW2 John Wayne movies where the Jap tank driver/pilot/soldier is always wearing "coke bottle" glasses and grinning like a maniac as he shoots the good guys with his machine guns just before the Duke toasts him.
Banzai charges never work because the hero on the machine gun never runs out of ammo/jams/or misses.
The extra always has time to throw his body on the grenade but never has time to throw it away or get clear.
Japs don't believe in bullets just bayonets.

On the list of good movies, How about WW1? Didn't anyone like "All quiet on the Western Front"? The "Blue Max"? "Gallipoli" had some nice 'over the top' scenes.

My wife would think that I like all war movies, but not so. The movie that always irritates me is Kellys Heroes. How this movie got so popular is beyond me. It is a product of the 60s-70s don't trust the government attitude and insults the military with a completely ludicrous plot. Such a waste of Clint's talents.

I seem to remember a quote from the director of "The Big Red One" - he was being interviewed by some newspaper or movie reviewer on his movie. (As I recall the director served in the Div during the war). They were asking him how he got such realistic battle scenes in the movie (at the time of release it was touted as very realistic). He said something to the effect that - "You can't make an audience feel what it is like to be in a battle - you would have to fill the theater with smoke, set off large explosions around them - then shoot the person sitting next to them. That's the only way to have the audience feel like they have been in battle."
My apologies for butchering the quote. Most war movies will always miss the mark when attempting to capture the sheer horror of armed conflict. I just don't think it is possible to do that. You know - I'm not sure I would want them to if they could.

I think that Saving Private Ryan was quite ok for the effects, I've never been to combat myself but just in the opening scene when the MG34 is blasting away the guys in the landing craft is quite powerful and (I think) realistic. Too bad that the movie was your typical hollywood-usa-stars'n'stripes-crap.

You forget that:

1) When allies starts the attak, the german General always are sleeping and nobody want to harm him to notify the news.

2) Every german patrol had one strong guy to issue a body fight with the hero (and lose it obviously)

3) In the older films one lone marine should kill dozen of enemies without recharging his gun.

*- Germans will always be talking in loud voices when patrolling at night.

*- Axis commanders will always say something to the effect of: "Bah, they're soft weak (Fill in your Allied Country name here ). Our forces will easily crush them!"

*- Axis battle plans usually consist of frontal attack followed by strategic withdrawal ( assuming any troops are left )

*- Axis officers are never kept up to date on which of their comrades-in-arms have been killed, or what they look like. ( Ahhhh Hauptmann Weber / "Clint Eastwood", how wonderful to see you again. )

And the list could go on and on and on :

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"A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow. "
-General George S. Patton

German units are officered at a rate of six officers for every 3 enlisted men.

Slapping a coward's face will make him a hero.

John Wayne can't be killed. (Except for in "The Fighting Seabees"

Every Russian partisan is a crack shot.

You don't need to be able to speak German to impersonate a German officer, a German accent will do. If you can't do a German accent, a cultured English accent will suffice.

45mm Anti-tank guns will knock out the heaviest German tanks, and shoot down aircraft too. See "Days of Glory" for this one.

Every German tank is a Tiger. Just once I'd like to hear, "That's a PzKpfw IVc!"

troopie

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Pamwe Chete

[This message has been edited by troopie (edited October 24, 2000).]

Originally posted by degen:
My wife would think that I like all war movies, but not so. The movie that always irritates me is Kellys Heroes. How this movie got so popular is beyond me. It is a product of the 60s-70s don't trust the government attitude and insults the military with a completely ludicrous plot. Such a waste of Clint's talents.

I don't classify Kelly's heroes as a war movie, really. As a war movie, it is simply too far out. World war II in a parallel universe, maybe? It's really a comedy set in world war II. I didn't take it seriously and enjoyed it immensely. But it wasn't about war.


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Fabs

Well, if there is anything I have learned from war movies, its that to actually make the audience feel like they were in a war would end up leaving them scared for life.
Hey, I still jump every once in a while at the shooting range. Its scary to think someone is trying to kill you, and any move you make could be the wrong one. I've never been in combat, and can't truly imagine it, but I know enough to say I never want to be there. A movie will suffice for me.
But, to stay on subject, there are well made movies, and others that are utter crap. I would say Battle of the Bulge is the worst war movie that I have ever seen. No suprise there.

Donald Sutherland was a scream in "Kelly's Heros".

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Good hunting,
Pack Rat

Originally posted by Fabs:
I don't classify Kelly's heroes as a war movie, really. As a war movie, it is simply too far out.

Heh, I agree completely. I think it's perfectly okay to slam the last half (or more) of Saving Private Ryan for being unrealistic, Star Wars-inspired, over-inflated flag-waving tripe, because it set out to be the ultimate potrayal of grunts on the west front.

Kelly's Heroes on the other hand, sets out to be a good fun, adventure tale of a bunch of weird people who happens to be in a war, and succeeds admirably. I don't think I have met a single person with any amount of social competence how doesn't find this one more or less hilarious. In fact, I'm thinking about suggesting to my boss we don't hire any people who don't like it.

In the same vein, The Thin Red Line sets out to be a beautiful and thoughtful look at what goes on in head of a group of people and how they come to term with death. It also succeeds admirably, and manages to throw a surprising amount of military realism into the mix as well, considering it's not the point of the movie.

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"Nobody takes power. They're given power by the rest of us, because we are stupid or afraid or both."
- William Edgars, Babylon 5:"The Exercise of Vital Powers"

**U-571**

complete with manditory Germans massacering defenceless civilians scene.

one word review after being dragged to see it.

"ACK"

Kellys Heroes has some funny moments, but unfortunately for those who know very little history, unlike us, they think it is somewhat based on facts. For the gen-x or whatever generation they are now, movies are how they learn about history. In this respect, Kellys Heroes fails to have any redeeming qualities.

Kelly's hero's i consider more a comedy-drama set in wartime than anything else therefore i dont judge it based on "historical content"

But then again i'm biased...i loved Donald Sutherland in it.

"ITS A BEAUTIFUL TANK!!!!...."

the movie also sticks in my mind as i thought for a while there that i was looking at an actual Tiger tank staring as itself....till i took a closer look at the suspension.

I had made the votes recount about “WWII films –what is your favorite?” It was a hard work, but some one had to do it.

Here are the numbers:
1st: “Das Boot” (17 votes)
2nd “Saving Private Ryan” and “Stalingrad” (13 votes each one)
NOTE: some people who votes for SPR only did for the landing scene, I take this as a 25% of a vote.
3rd “A bridge to far” (9 votes)
4th “Cross of Iron” and “Kelly’s heroes” (7 votes each one)
5th “The winter war” (6)
6th “The unknown soldier” (5)

When I get some more time I will make the same for the worst movie.

I had remembered a very good one (although I think that is not a war movie but a political one):
“La battaglia di Algeri” (“The Battle for Algeria&#8221 , by Gillo Pontecorvo. A film form 1966.
Is the history of the fight between the Algerian National Liberation Front and the French Paratroopers since 1954 to 1957.
For those who like good films, its a very good one (it won the gold lion in the Venice festival in 1966).
For those who like strategy or politics: the movie explains the politic and military tactics of both the Algerians and French sides.
For those who like to see real tanks there are a SU-100 in one of the last scenes (during scene of the last Arab manifestation)

PS for Xavier: It seems that my brother has the video cassettes from “The Battle for Moscow”! I will ask him to make a copy (knowing my brother this could take a some time) and afterwards I will send them to you. Do the e-mail in your “Profile” correct? I could e-mail you there when I had the copies, so you could give me your postal address.

Che


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No Pasarán!!

In the Thin Red Line, At one point, if you watch the 105's behind Nick Nolte's character, you will see them jump up in the air instead of recoiling like a real artillery piece. Watch the gun tubes, there is no backward movement at all.



[This message has been edited by reaper2100 (edited October 25, 2000).]

Originally posted by Brutto-Bob:
2) Every german patrol had one strong guy to issue a body fight with the hero (and lose it obviously)

True, but it's always worth a chuckle when the hero hits him with his pattented one-two punch and the strong guy just grins.

My vote for worst goes to "Sixty Seconds Over Tokyo". As cheesy as any Soviet propaganda film, but without the artistry.


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Billy Yank
I don't define "my own" the way you want me to.

Originally posted by Panzerjaeger Hortlund:

3) Any German force regardless of size will walk into any ambush or trap, no matter how obvious the trap or ambush is. German units on march will move with their tanks first followed by soldiers in trucks. The halftracks comes last together with the recon units.

5) German tactics. When ordered to attack, a German soldier will run as fast as he can towards his objective. If a unit is ordered to attack, the entire unit will run as fast as they can towards their objective, preferably in a straight line.
.

7) German tanks will drive buttoned towards the enemy without infantry support.

[/B]

Gee this sounds like a good description of AI tactics First the tanks come charging, then trucks loaded with soldiers, and in the rear the recon AC's are driving round and round in circles.. all in a straight line towards the objectives except the AC's which will never see them. Only exception here is the halftracks moving ahead of the tanks. The easy, extremely obvious ambushing also fits, and the mad dash forward of buttoned tanks with their supporting infantry way behind.

The AI is still a lot better than it used to be, so don't take me wrong.

ROFL
come to think about it, it sounds *exactly* like AI tactics (dont get me wrong, still love the game). Now everyone can recreate their favourite scene from any crap-warmovie.

One of my favourite moments was when 7 polish 19-men (i think its 19) squads occupied the same hex in a meeting engagement battle. I still have no idea what possessed the AI to pull of that small gem of tactical brilliance... sounds more like 18-19th century warfare to me "Form squares".

Anyhow, my Ju 88 had a field day with those poor poles.

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Panzerjaeger Hortlund
-=Fear is only a state of mind=-