Page 2 of 2
RE: Oil and Manpower
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:28 pm
by sPzAbt653
The Mines and Oil don't effect Supply, which is nice. All the supply comes from cities. Currently, all the cities add up to being worth more than any mines or oil on the whole map. Therefore it is not of any importance for Germany to hold Hungary, or Rumania, or to even need desperately to get to the Caucasus.
So how many ways are there to reduce the importance of cities while increasing the importance of actual resources ?
I like an idea of having mines and oil being the main goal on map, with industrial centers a close second, while having all the other cities amount to very little. Currently it seems to be the opposite. And again, I am only talking about a mod, not the main game.
RE: Oil and Manpower
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:31 pm
by Hairog
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Excellent intel, thanks very much [&o]
With the 1.10 change to HQ's Supply and Chaining, we may be able to reduce city values without affecting supply too much [as long as there are HQ's around]. I haven't thought it thru in detail, but with HQ's only needing 3 to chain, and with any HQ to be chained being able to do so if within 7 movement points of the 'chainer', the 'chainee' will provide 8 supply.
I'm not sure if the game actually needs any city to be at 10 or 12. Units seem to function well with 3[8] and 5[8] HQ's nearby, even in Africa and Russia. Maybe the resource supply values of 12-10-8-5-3 could be changed to 10-8-5-3-1 without screwing things up while reducing the amount of MPP's generated. I'm referring to a mod of course, not the main game.
Glad to help out.
I've reduced the cities the Soviets occupy by about 2 each as you suggested. In the time frame of my mod this feels about right. Cities were mainly valuable for the roads and rail lines that went through them. As I said earlier, from what I've read, most of the major cities were liabilities in 1946-47.
RE: Oil and Manpower
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:33 pm
by sPzAbt653
Your right about 150 being extreme. I was just showing the top end. I have mine doing 45 each in WWIII1946.
lol, I just did a quick calculation of oil output for 1940 and also came to a number of 45 for the USSR [8D]
Capturing a city such as Warsaw was probably a drain on the economy instead of an asset.
And there is a modifier for Occupational Efficiency, which I think caps the maximum that an occupier can gain from destroyed cities ?
RE: Oil and Manpower
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:45 pm
by Hairog
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
The Mines and Oil don't effect Supply, which is nice. All the supply comes from cities. Currently, all the cities add up to being worth more than any mines or oil on the whole map. Therefore it is not of any importance for Germany to hold Hungary, or Rumania, or to even need desperately to get to the Caucasus.
So how many ways are there to reduce the importance of cities while increasing the importance of actual resources ?
I like an idea of having mines and oil being the main goal on map, with industrial centers a close second, while having all the other cities amount to very little. Currently it seems to be the opposite. And again, I am only talking about a mod, not the main game.
Good points!
I believe that manipulating the Resource Values is the only way to make them the focus of military conquest or even strategic bombing. Historically bombing the crap out of a city did not do much in the way of altering a countries industrial output. They moved the factories or put them underground for the most part.
On the other hand overrunning or bombing the crap out of the oil production facilities and to a lesser extent the mines, was a war winning strategy.
RE: Oil and Manpower
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:08 pm
by Hairog
PS
I think I'm going to boost the moral points for cities being won or lost. I think this would be the best way to recreate the focus on capital cities and larger population centers without altering their historic economic impact.
RE: Oil and Manpower
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:10 pm
by Hairog
Ha! How do you do a quick calculation???
RE: Oil and Manpower
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:14 am
by sPzAbt653
I cheated and used the numbers from the old High Command game, scaled to a maximum of 150 [;)] It would work as a rough starting point. Still thinking about it all.
RE: Oil and Manpower
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:27 pm
by BillRunacre
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Cut back on the mines and especially the ports and cities.
Would this mess with Supply, especially changing the values for cities ?
Boost the Oil Production facilities to 15 and then max the multiplier
Not sure how to do this, would it have something to do with this screen ?
You can set the value in MPPs per resource strength point to be less than 1, e.g. 0.25.
This would reduce a city's MPP value while its supply can remain the same. [:)]
RE: Oil and Manpower
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:29 pm
by BillRunacre
ORIGINAL: Hairog
For a war in 1946 pretty much all of the cities between Moscow and Vichy were wasted. There were millions of refugees, no food, armed gangs of deserters, no infrastructure etc. Capturing a city such as Warsaw was probably a drain on the economy instead of an asset.
Excellent book on the subject...in fact on of the only books on the immediate post-war period concerning 1946-47 of any note that I've come across. The immediate post war era has been neglected terribly.
Book
I'm currently reading Anne Applebaum's Behind the Iron Curtain and am enjoying it a lot. It shows how the USSR took hold of Eastern Europe and how it steadily squashed opposition. It's worth a read in my opinion.
RE: Oil and Manpower
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:09 am
by Hairog
Does it have much information about the few years right after the war? I found that most books give very short shrift to the end of the war until 1948 and it was possibly the most significant period in European history from 1945 on.
RE: Oil and Manpower
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:25 pm
by BillRunacre
Yes, it covers 1944-56, there's quite a lot to it. But it's not really a military work, more social/political history.