Matrix Games Forums

Bit grim for France for April!

Yes. Germany has been investing heavily in units as well as diplo chits vs. USSR. Additionally, I was probably over aggressive in miving into the Saar mines and the Luftwaffe has never been grounded by the fall/winter/spring weather.

In the other hand his tech investment is only 200mpp so far, and while he hasn't lost a unit in France I think his mpp damage is higher than normal.

if you can keep his tech investment down that will help the mid to late war. If he forces USSR diplomacy down though you're going to struggle as he will take both Med and GB.

USSR diplomacy chits are currently stabilized. He did get a 9% hit on the first turn he invested, but he has also annexed Lithuania which brought back 8% of it. All the numbers for everything are in my posts.

Have to start finishing my turn now.

Interesting. if I got that 9% hit I would not have annexed Lithuania

Allied Turn April 25, 1940

Previous Axis Turn:
Mud in Europe.
*Note that there may be some inaccuracies in the combat results below.

Germany takes Denmark and Norway.
Germany declares war on Belgium.
The US is shocked by German aggression against Norway and Belgium (+7%) and the USSR by Belgium (+3%).
Italy moves closer to joining Germany but is not there yet (+12%).

Brittish Fighters engage in major air to air conflicts over Brussles. They take a heavy toll (6 dmg) but manage to damage 2 German Fighters and a Tactical Bomber.
In addition, the Medium Bombers took a hit from ground fire. In the end Brussels is left open and is conquered by German paratroopers who suffer 1 damage in the drop mostly due to accidents.
The German army engages some other parts of the Belgian forces without taking any additional casaulties, however northern Belgium, including Antwerp, is not directly occupied by German troops in the invasion.
Belgium then surrenders at the end of the turn.

A German Army (str 9) advances on Nancy and attacks the xx Corps (str 8). French Corps takes 3 damage and does 1 back.
Tactical Bombers strike the French xx Army (str 10) in Verdun and do a point of damage while taking a hit themselves from the Army/City.
The French xx Corps (str 10) northwest of Verdun comes under heavy attack and is forced to retreat further to the northwest at minimal strength (1). They only inflict 1 point of damage to a German Corps in the fighting.
The French xx Army (str 10) at the xxx mines between Verdun and Luxembourg also suffers 9 damage in fighting but is made of sterner stuff as they hold their ground and inflicting the following damage to the attacking Germans:
2 dmg GE Army, 2 dmg GE Corps, 1 dmg GE Panzer.
Another German paratrooper lands southwest of Verdun without suffering any casaulties.

A German sub is spotted east of Gibralter, heading east.

U-32 in Silent mode appears to escape a net of French and German destroyers.*


Allied Turn
Clear in England. Clear in Europe.

France suffers more morale damage as the Germans advance and 'outflank the maginot' -4%**.

France orders an organized retreat as they continue sending reinforcements. The losses are however outpacing the replacements.

The half strength sub that snuck away is not found, nor are there any other naval engagements.

The UK suffers morale loss with Belgium's surrender.

The UK launch Operation Valentine and seize the Faroe islands.

The USA passes the Cash and Carry Bill.


--------
I think France will likely go down early, in exchange I believe Germany is taking a larger than normal amount of damage even if they haven't (and likely won't) loose any units.
This is due in part to a very aggressive German attack and the ability to freely use the Luftwaffe all Fall, Winter and Spring.

*Do subs not loose movement points in silent mode when encountering unseen naval units?

** By a paradrop into an out of supply hex? That seems a cheesy trigger for that event. I don't blame the paradrop, just the trigger conditions.
--------


Reports Info

USA 31%
USSR 20%
IT 85%

Yugoslavia 58% Axis
Spain 01% Axis
Norway 18% Axis *forgot to check this


UK 100% Morale *Before loss of Belgium event
USA 100% Morale
USSR 100% Morale
FR 58% Morale
IT 100% Morale
GE 101% Morale


UK 182 MPP in combat losses
USA 0 MPP in combat losses
USSR 0 MPP in combat losses
FR 2,157 MPP in combat losses

GE 1,662 MPP in combat losses
IT 0 MPP in combat losses


UK 136 MPP lost to Subs/Raiders
USSR 0 MPP lost to Subs/Raiders
GE 156 MPP lost to Subs/Raiders
GE 0 MPP lost to Strategic Bombing (0 Allied damage to bombers)
IT 0 MPP lost to Strategic Bombing


UK 1,202 MPP on Units, 675 MPP on Diplomacy, 400 MPP on Tech
USA 0 MPP on Units, 0 MPP on Diplomacy, 500 MPP on Tech
USSR 0 MPP on Units, 0 MPP on Diplomacy, 200 MPP on Tech
FR 966 MPP on Units, 150 MPP on Diplomacy, 0 MPP on Tech

GE 1,369 MPP on Units, 800 MPP on Diplomacy, 200 MPP on Tech
IT 150 MPP on Units, 0 MPP on Diplomacy, 525 MPP on Tech


UK Income: 308 MPP
US Income: 95 MPP (excluding Lend Lease)
USSR Income: 49 MPP (excluding Lend Lease)
FR Income: 130 MPP
GE Income: 275 MPP (estimate)
IT Income: 90 MPP

Total Allied Income: 582 MPP
Total Axis Income: ~ 365 MPP (estimate)

*Note excluding DE costs from Allied Income listed above.


GE 39 Land Units, 8 Air Units, 10 Naval Units
IT 17 Land Units, 2 Air Units, 11 Naval Units

UK 15 Land Units, 3 Air Units, 26 Naval Units
USA 3 Land Units, 1 Air Units
USSR 25 Land Units, 1 Air Units, 3 Naval Units
FR 23 Land Units, 2 Air Units, 9 Naval Units

End of last German Turn.

France in a lot of trouble, will probably fall mid June unless the plan is 'All of France'.

Due to some mistakes on my part, some luck on his (with the weather), a willingness to take damage, and a heavy commitment to building units early
(Germany is up to 39 land units).

Dunno what he's bought but it doesn't look like its tanks.

Looking at the unit count, I guess air.

Allied Turn May 17, 1940

Previous Axis Turn:
Clear in Europe.

A flood of new German land units (they have 39 now) combine with the Luftwaffe and destroy 3 French Armies (although one was at 1 strength), 2 Corps and a UK Corps.
Germany takes Verdun, Nancy and Reims. Additionally they empty Chalons but are do not take the city yet.
German casaulties are relatively light: A hit on 2 Figthers (over Reims and Nancy from UK & French Fighters), 1 dmg to Corps attacking Chalons, 1 dmg to an Army attacking Reims,
1 dmg to a Panzer Grenadier and 1 dmg to a Corps at Nancy and 3 dmg to a Panzer versus the British Corps.

UK morale is boosted as Chamberlain is sacked and Churchill become Prime Minister.

French morale falls as the Germans approach Paris.

The UK take control of Iceland via Operation Fork.

The Germans reroute the Norwegian convoy.


Allied Turn
Clear in England. Clear in Europe.

French bombers attack a low morale (str 7) German XXVII Corps northease of Lille, and are escorted by UK Fighters. German interceptors from Verdun engage:
UK FTR -2, FR Bmbr -2, GE FTR -1, GE Corps -2.
The B.E.F. in Lille then attacks the XXVII Corps (str 5), and does 2 damage while taking 1 back. The B.E.F. then evac out of Lille and head north.
The French 1st Army then moves into Lille and shatters the XXVII Corps.
France then builds a screen around Paris.


--------
France is unlikely to last through 2 more German turns, unless the plan is 'All France'.
--------


Reports Info

USA 31%
USSR 20%
IT 85%


Yugoslavia 58% Axis
Spain 01% Axis


UK 102% Morale
USA 100% Morale
USSR 100% Morale
FR 51% Morale
IT 100% Morale
GE 101% Morale


UK 510 MPP in combat losses
USA 0 MPP in combat losses
USSR 0 MPP in combat losses
FR 3,153 MPP in combat losses

GE 2,094 MPP in combat losses
IT 0 MPP in combat losses


UK 136 MPP lost to Subs/Raiders
USSR 0 MPP lost to Subs/Raiders
GE 156 MPP lost to Subs/Raiders
GE 0 MPP lost to Strategic Bombing (0 Allied damage to bombers)
IT 0 MPP lost to Strategic Bombing


UK 1,415 MPP on Units, 675 MPP on Diplomacy, 400 MPP on Tech
USA 0 MPP on Units, 0 MPP on Diplomacy, 700 MPP on Tech
USSR 0 MPP on Units, 0 MPP on Diplomacy, 200 MPP on Tech
FR 1,070 MPP on Units, 150 MPP on Diplomacy, 0 MPP on Tech

GE 1,373 MPP on Units, 800 MPP on Diplomacy, 550 MPP on Tech
IT 186 MPP on Units, 0 MPP on Diplomacy, 525 MPP on Tech


UK Income: 299 MPP
US Income: 95 MPP (excluding Lend Lease)
USSR Income: 50 MPP (excluding Lend Lease)
FR Income: 115 MPP

GE Income: 340 MPP (estimate)
IT Income: 92 MPP

Total Allied Income: 559 MPP
Total Axis Income: ~ 432 MPP (estimate)

*Note excluding DE costs from Allied Income listed above.


GE 38 Land Units, 9 Air Units, 11 Naval Units
IT 17 Land Units, 2 Air Units, 11 Naval Units

UK 14 Land Units, 4 Air Units, 26 Naval Units
USA 3 Land Units, 1 Air Units
USSR 25 Land Units, 1 Air Units, 3 Naval Units
FR 19 Land Units, 2 Air Units, 9 Naval Units

Dunno what he's bought but it doesn't look like its tanks. Looking at the unit count, I guess air.

His turn prior to last, you'll note he went from 31 land units to 39.
There may be an extra Panzer, I can't keep track that well as I try and write down damage.
I did see a Mech because it took a point of damage around Nancy.

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

His turn prior to last, you'll note he went from 31 land units to 39.
There may be an extra Panzer, I can't keep track that well as I try and write down damage.
I did see a Mech because it took a point of damage around Nancy.

yeah but aren't most of those the free garrison from the Norway invasion? [&:]

yeah, forgot about that.

apparently i have nay ability 2
post pics .. yet eh' !!
but ger turn french armor came on and died
paris in 1
italy still out
apparently my ger subs gain supply from being beside a neutral
Italy .. in the med
das Uboaten
IG

That should probably be reported as a bug.

End of German Turn / Start of Allied Turn June 8, 1940

Allied Turn June 8, 1940

Previous Axis Turn:
Clear in Europe.

The Germans destroy the screening units in front of Pairs and on the peripheral. The French Fighters, newly reinforced, are destroyed in the air and on the ground (via a 3rd set of paratroopers) without scoring a single hit.
The French Heavy Tanks, A French Army, 2 Corps and a Garrison are also destroyed. The 2 French HQs are damaged but are not destroyed, yet at least.
The B.E.F. in Calais is attacked by a German Corps but is not hurt.
German damage for the turn: 2 Medium Bombers take hits from ground fire, 3 Armies take 1 damage, 3 Corps take 1 damage. The surrounded Corps near Metz is responsible for the damage to 1 GE Army and 2 of the Corps.

Musolini decides now that he wants to join with Germany. AVoiding the French Fleet (presuming Vichy is installed).


Allied Turn
Clear in England. Clear in Europe.

B.E.F. evacuates from Calais.
The 1st French Army in Lille does 2 damage to the German X (str 10) Corps, and takes 1 back.
The 4th French Army holds fast for a last stand in Paris while the rest of the French forces flee in terror, except the XLIV Corps which is still cut off in the Magingot.

The USSR seizes the the remaining Baltic States and Bessarabia.

Italy joins the Axis and declares war on France and the UK

France's 'wasted' diplo chit fires for +20% swing on Yugoslavia. (Why couldn't it have been Spain?)

French Communists continue with Anti-war propoganda. Most everyone is ignoring it as the 'war' is almost over.


--------

--------


Reports Info

***
Sorry, forgot to record the records info before I hit the end of turn button. All information below the Morale table is from last turn.
***


USA 31%
USSR 20%


Yugoslavia 38% Axis
Spain 01% Axis


UK 102% Morale
USA 100% Morale
USSR 100% Morale
FR 40% Morale *Before the Commie hit

IT 100% Morale
GE 101% Morale


UK 510 MPP in combat losses
USA 0 MPP in combat losses
USSR 0 MPP in combat losses
FR 3,153 MPP in combat losses

GE 2,094 MPP in combat losses
IT 0 MPP in combat losses


UK 136 MPP lost to Subs/Raiders
USSR 0 MPP lost to Subs/Raiders
GE 156 MPP lost to Subs/Raiders
GE 0 MPP lost to Strategic Bombing (0 Allied damage to bombers)
IT 0 MPP lost to Strategic Bombing


UK 1,415 MPP on Units, 675 MPP on Diplomacy, 400 MPP on Tech
USA 0 MPP on Units, 0 MPP on Diplomacy, 700 MPP on Tech
USSR 0 MPP on Units, 0 MPP on Diplomacy, 200 MPP on Tech
FR 1,070 MPP on Units, 150 MPP on Diplomacy, 0 MPP on Tech

GE 1,373 MPP on Units, 800 MPP on Diplomacy, 550 MPP on Tech
IT 186 MPP on Units, 0 MPP on Diplomacy, 525 MPP on Tech


UK Income: 299 MPP
US Income: 95 MPP (excluding Lend Lease)
USSR Income: 50 MPP (excluding Lend Lease)
FR Income: 115 MPP

GE Income: 340 MPP (estimate)
IT Income: 92 MPP

Total Allied Income: 559 MPP
Total Axis Income: ~ 432 MPP (estimate)

*Note excluding DE costs from Allied Income listed above.


GE 38 Land Units, 9 Air Units, 11 Naval Units
IT 17 Land Units, 2 Air Units, 11 Naval Units

UK 14 Land Units, 4 Air Units, 26 Naval Units
USA 3 Land Units, 1 Air Units
USSR 25 Land Units, 1 Air Units, 3 Naval Units
FR 19 Land Units, 2 Air Units, 9 Naval Units

June 19 1940
france falls .. minor damage to a few units
plunder 1116
3 uboat finds a trans heading to med 2 damage
ca attacks dd 1 damage ger 3 damage uk
italy 2 dip chits
IG

Allied Turn June 30, 1940

Previous Axis Turn:
Clear in Europe.

The Wehrmacht mops up all the French units that it can get to. Only the 4th Army in Paris and the 1st Army in Lille put up any kind of useful resistance.
The 4th Army damages 2 Medium bombers, a Tactical bomber and does 1 damage to a German Army.
The 1st Army does 1 damage to a German Army and to 2 Corps. A German escort Fighter engages a UK Fighter* over Lille as well. They damage each other, while the bombers get through unscathed.

A badly damaged U-32 (str 3) finds the B.E.F. Army transports (str 9) and their DD escort (HMS Javelin) to their south. They manage to avoid being surprised and do 2 damage to the transports.
The Deutschland then comes steaming in from the north towards the transports and is intercepted by the DD HMCS Assiniboine protecting them on the northern side. Deutschland takes 1 damage while Assiniboine takes 3.

Germany accepts Petain's surrender and installs Vichy France. The North African and Syrian territories swear allegiance to Vichy.

The UK Morale suffers at the loss of Paris.

Franco is encouraged by Germany's success (+24%), while the USA is shocked (+11%).

Franco begins exporting to Germany.


Allied Turn
Clear in England. Clear in Europe.

British Morale increases a bit at the decision to support De Gaulle and the Free French.**

Aussie and Kiwi troops are rushed to Egypt.

HMS Javelin quickly finds U-32 (str 3) and cripples her for 2 damage.
HMCS Assiniboine sweeps around to the south of Javelin (to avoid the possibly lurking Deutschland) and puts a depth charge under the belly of U-32 breaking the U-boat in half and sending her to the bottom.

It's noted that Germany purchased another Major power Diplo chit. Did he drop another on the USSR, or is this one on the USA?*** [X(] [8|]

The UK reroutes her convoys.

Operation Catapult is launched destroying most of the Vichy navy.

The US begins Lend Lease.

--------
* A minor mistake, I probably should have grounded the Fighter.

** I struck out and got 0 out of 5 possible units to go Free French.
I wish this was less random and slightly scripted. I also wish Free France was a 'Major Power' with a small income (representing middle Africa and New Caledonia) and a unit or 2.

*** Meaning he must have sold off one of his 2 (presumably) regular chits.
As I've stated before I am not a fan of the way major power diplomacy works in this game. [:(]
--------


Reports Info


USA 42%
USSR 20%


Yugoslavia 38% Axis
Spain 25% Axis
Netherlands 44% Allied


UK 98% Morale
USA 100% Morale
USSR 100% Morale

IT 100% Morale
GE 101% Morale


UK 613 MPP in combat losses
USA 0 MPP in combat losses
USSR 0 MPP in combat losses
FR 5,551 MPP in combat losses

GE 2,694 MPP in combat losses
IT 0 MPP in combat losses


UK 144 MPP lost to Subs/Raiders
USSR 0 MPP lost to Subs/Raiders
GE 212 MPP lost to Subs/Raiders
GE 0 MPP lost to Strategic Bombing (0 Allied damage to bombers)
IT 0 MPP lost to Strategic Bombing


UK 1,996 MPP on Units, 675 MPP on Diplomacy, 400 MPP on Tech
USA 0 MPP on Units, 0 MPP on Diplomacy, 700 MPP on Tech
USSR 0 MPP on Units, 0 MPP on Diplomacy, 200 MPP on Tech
FR 1,114 MPP on Units, 150 MPP on Diplomacy, 0 MPP on Tech

GE 1,540 MPP on Units, 975 MPP on Diplomacy, 725 MPP on Tech
IT 271 MPP on Units, 100 MPP on Diplomacy, 525 MPP on Tech


UK Income: 290 MPP
US Income: 154 MPP (excluding Lend Lease)
USSR Income: 53 MPP (excluding Lend Lease)


GE Income: 425 MPP (estimate)
IT Income: 107 MPP

Total Allied Income: 497 MPP
Total Axis Income: ~ 532 MPP (estimate)

*Note excluding DE costs from Allied Income listed above.


GE 38 Land Units, 9 Air Units, 10 Naval Units
IT 17 Land Units, 2 Air Units, 11 Naval Units

UK 14 Land Units, 4 Air Units, 26 Naval Units
USA 3 Land Units, 1 Air Units
USSR 25 Land Units, 1 Air Units, 3 Naval Units

I agree, major diplomacy is in need of a revisit, which is one of the advantages of tourney play. The use of multiple diplomacy chits in USSR is a direct result of the current German strategy of minimizing all actions that would hasten USSR entry into the war. KZ, did me in brilliantly by using this strategy and in that game I did not put Allied chits into USSR. He ran roughshod over Egypt and GB before needing to turn to USSR. This is why I dumped a ton of French and British chits into my game against Sugar and got to 55% very quickly. It has helped immensely.


Between this strategy and the teleporting air units and troops the game is getting further away from WWII. For example Sugar left virtually all of France, the Netherlands and northern Germany empty in our current game. No reason not to, as he just operates troops, an HQ and air back and blows me up (I did withdraw most of them). It's a game not an historical recreation so this is not all bad, but its not all good.

I agree with you to a major extent.
There is a price in MPP to moving a force around to do that, but there should be some other kind of limits. I don't know what to do about Sugar's method of defense. Perhaps a constant small raiding force
that threatens and forces him to spend on redeploying and then evacs out before he can hit them. If he operates the units back to the eastern front... then land again, ad nauseam.


As for the Major Power diplo... it just turns the game into Roulette. In this current game, Germany is weakening her Tech advancement but the UK is hurting as much in forces as in Tech.
If he is coming for the British Isle, all I can hope to do is slow him down and build the USSR up (which of course is hard to do with chits being flung there). On the other hand he still might be going for Russia first, given that he took Lithuania. In which case the UK is still hurting in units to defend Egypt because of the Diplo investment.

I don't like it because for each chit that fires it costs the Soviets about 20-25 MPP turn (not to mention delaying when they can declare war themselves). That means only 7-8 turns before the lost MPP makes up for the expense of the Chit. If you factor in the amount of time it takes for the chit to fire then (assuming 10 turn at 5%) then 17-18 turns on average and you still get the full benefit of stalling entry.

However, the roulette factor is in when the chit fires. Since, in this case, he got a chit to fire on the first turn of investment (with a 2 chit investment) that winds up being a HUGE benefit for him. If the chit took 17-20 turns to fire then it probably wasn't worth it.

If I want to play that kind of game I'll go to a casino, I don't need to play a strategy war game for that experience.