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Regarding your bigger calculations post Kielec, does capturing Ploesti as the SU in 41 reduce German Oil and fuel in either the short term if not held or in the long run if the SU does manage to hold it (for example if you flip Romania on T7-10) and how soon would it take to be effective or fatally detrimental?


BTW, I agree with you that TIK is wrong about Herr H and Germany absolutely needing to invade the SU in 1941 for OIL and perhaps instead negotiate for more deliveries in their M-R Pact trade deal, however I think it was what Herr H thought at the time.

Also I've read that the the Ploesti OIL fields & or refineries were drastically inefficient at producing OIL and that the Romanians themselves were overly inefficient with using their own very large amount of drawn supply of their domestic OIL in their civilian economy, so there were some potential efficiency & allocation gains to be made there too.

There's too much oil and fule on both sides but that's not easy to reduce without breaking something in later war or in small scenarios.
Plus the current supply system does not permit priorities so it's "an all or nothing" delivery.

Missing oil/fuel usage is for example civilian use or by naval units (ports). As far as I had read Romania was using a lot of its oil/fuel products, just selling excess. Only from 43 on Germany was more involved and took a bigger bite.

To return to fuel management in WITE,
If any side was lacking Fuel in the current WITE game it would be a big problem because there is no way to prioritize and manage deliveries to part of units.

So a lack of fuel would results in small decrease in capabilities of all Motorized units equally and it would have little sense.

OK, too much OIL in game, so capturing Ploesti T7-10 and keeping it doesn't break German oil/fuel deliveries detrimentally then or through to '45?

Yeah, I thought that Germany (and the fuel staved Italian Navy) should have gotten themselves both a greater share of Romanian OIL from at least August 1940 or very soon there after and delved into improving the amount of production efficiency also, well before as late as in 43. They might have been able to receive enough to have not felt that they were in a position to have to invade the SU in 1941 at all, while also negotiated for more to be sent across that border from Stalin on top of that in the mean time.

"so capturing Ploesti T7-10 and keeping it"

In most games against a good german, Odessa is not still under soviet control during T7-10, so i don't see how you can capture ploetsi. If the german let you so far in Rumania, the game won't last sufficiently to see 1944

I was just asking so I know how soon the AI controlled Germans are going to run out of OIL and fuel or if they do at all. And yeah they wont last too long now in my current game at the end of T15 all German Divisions are cut off, except for only one Light/GJ Div, the SS Cav and half a dozen teleported Security Divisions along with 3-4 remaining Italians, while 15 Pz & Mot Inf Divs have already surrendered! [:D]

The Allied (US and GB) bombings on Ploesti had very bad results almost until the beginning of 1944. I remember that the first attack on 1st August 1943 was a failure : 54 B-24 lost on 177 partecipating to the raid ( and many others damaged ). The damages obtained were repaired very fast , ( I am living at Bran, Rumania) all the data that I have been able to find in Rumanian Language are concording about it. The area was full of Flak and with at least 50-100 Me 109 /110 always to fly.
When Rumania changed side on 23rd August 1944, the Rumanian "Red" army immediately protected oil and refineries attacking the German fighting units that were dislocated there.

Still, forcing the German to put here far from any theater of operation a lot of fighter squadrons and tons of heavy Flak is probably quite an interesting result by itself. [:)]

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Still, forcing the German to put here far from any theater of operation a lot of fighter squadrons and tons of heavy Flak is probably quite an interesting result by itself. [:)]

Although there are several Rumanian fighter groups frozen in bases there - including their hurricanes in the default set up. And flak already attached to cities there.

Worth seeing post 957 of this AAR for this question

tm.asp?m=4280532&mpage=32

How do you plan a bombing on PLoetsi ?

In a october 1942 game, it's the 2nd time I bomb ploetsi. This turn, it was with 250 long range level bombers (IL-4, PE-8 etc..). I'm intercepted by 3 fighters. There is two dozen of AA guns. I loose 50 bombers and I don't do a single point of % in damage. The first time (some turns ago), it was the same. As I build 15 IL-4 a turn and 1 PE-8, how can I do ? Is 1942 too early ?