Page 2 of 4
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:13 am
by StuccoFresco
A tally for individual men/vehicles would conflict with the different unit "sizes" and probably wonky. But since battle reports already tells us exactly how many and which kind of enemy units and subunits we face in every single battle, a simple chart that summarizes all of them wouldn't break immersion. Yes, you can manually add up the numbers after every battle, but...
Every battlefield commander have to estimate opponent losses, it is a fundamental part of war. For example during operation KURSK German estimate were they were killing soviet soldier at a rate of 1 for 3, tanks at a rate of 1 for 5.
Well, battlefield estimates done on the frontlines were usually far from accurate, with sometimes "kill claims" that exceeded the number of enemy "units" actually present in the battle. Or the gross exaggeration made for aerial kills in ww2.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:40 am
by UnionWarDog
Lobster, I tried to post some examples but I'm currently not allowed to post images or links in the forum. Just do a search for JTS games Victory Dialog and you'll find several examples to look at. A generic loss and victory dialog isn't anything extreme to ask for. Instead, it normally is a basic dialog with almost any strategic war game.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:12 am
by altipueri
ORIGINAL: Iamstrategygame
ORIGINAL: Lobster
The combat charts show you enemy losses. It's just like real life in that you don't have a computer spitting out the numbers. You have to add stuff. [;)]
I am a general, adding up the tally of each battle is done by subordinate. Hence the casualty ledger, which we don't have. Stop being lazy and make a complete game.
You are not a general but a recruit, according to the number of posts.
Some more basic training is still required. Diplomacy may help.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:58 am
by Lobster
ORIGINAL: Lobster
On the other hand, a data field could be created for each equipment that could be filled with the number of crew. It probably wouldn't take much for that and wouldn't have to have any impact on the game at all.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:14 am
by Curtis Lemay
Both sides have access to the two Loss Penalty values - which give a general idea about each side's losses.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:09 pm
by UnionWarDog
Lobster/Curtis, As stated before, I purchased the prior TOAW & WotY additions but left the game because I missed the simple game dialogs provided by the JTS strategy games. I did build two large WW2 and ACW scenarios but felt something lacking while playing the games. Couldn't get a good victory/loss dialog of the battle and missed how leader units influenced the OOB. Now, on the 4th edition of TOAW, these basic missing features, which made me leave the game, are still missing.
I'm not willing to buy a polished version of the same game which I already own 3 copies of. The game needs some basic reporting features. Without those is basically just repeats with minor adjustments.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:00 pm
by Lobster
Opinions and belly buttons. Everyone has one. This is simply a matter of how someone prefers to count their beans. Nothing more, nothing less. I prefer to count bags of beans. You prefer to take out each bean and count it. No one is the same and that's ok. What you can do if you really wanted to count each bean is make a utility that counts individual soldiers.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:51 pm
by sPzAbt653
As it is now, we can get this data at the end of a scenario. While a scenario is in progress we can keep track ourselves by monitoring every Combat Report, but this is a lot of effort. I did reveal in Post #11 above how it is rather easily done, and if you watch any of Larry's AAR's I think he does this regularly. It's not difficult to do, but I think it does give you too much info.
That said, I think I can agree that an 'Overall Loss Report' would seem to be appropriate for TOAW. We can find it if we want to, so why not add a flip side to the I&R Report so we can check on these numbers that some players are keen to peruse [:)]
P.S. Switching sides in the I&R Report is available in the Editor, so I will stick my nose out and assume that this feature is already available but is disabled in game.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:57 pm
by sPzAbt653
missed how leader units influenced the OOB.
This is done thru HQ's and various Proficiency settings but I think most scenarios don't address it directly nor do most scenarios have actual Leader counters. I would suggest not passing on TOAW IV for this reason.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:32 pm
by UnionWarDog
sPzAbt653, thanks for the feedback. Regarding leaders and HQ, how do you simulate leaders like, Lee, Sherman, Grant, Jackson, etc...in a ACW scenario or Rommel, Patton or Zuhkov in a divisional WW2 scenario. I would be curios to know.
Any side function/add-on to create victory or loss dialogs would work too but knowing their simplicity I think it would just be easier to add it to the game as a review dialog/window.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:54 pm
by StuccoFresco
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
As it is now, we can get this data at the end of a scenario. While a scenario is in progress we can keep track ourselves by monitoring every Combat Report, but this is a lot of effort. I did reveal in Post #11 above how it is rather easily done, and if you watch any of Larry's AAR's I think he does this regularly. It's not difficult to do, but I think it does give you too much info.
That said, I think I can agree that an 'Overall Loss Report' would seem to be appropriate for TOAW. We can find it if we want to, so why not add a flip side to the I&R Report so we can check on these numbers that some players are keen to peruse [:)]
P.S. Switching sides in the I&R Report is available in the Editor, so I will stick my nose out and assume that this feature is already available but is disabled in game.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:35 pm
by Lobster
ORIGINAL: UnionWarDog
sPzAbt653, thanks for the feedback. Regarding leaders and HQ, how do you simulate leaders like, Lee, Sherman, Grant, Jackson, etc...in a ACW scenario or Rommel, Patton or Zuhkov in a divisional WW2 scenario. I would be curios to know.
Any side function/add-on to create victory or loss dialogs would work too but knowing their simplicity I think it would just be easier to add it to the game as a review dialog/window.
You guys really need to attempt to take this up with Bob. He is the current User Interface guy and would be the one to do the grunt work for adding anything like that to the game. Past experience would dictate you demonstrate what this would add to the game other than "GG WitE does it" or "because I want it". I'm sure there are some valid reasons.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:36 pm
by Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: Lobster
ORIGINAL: UnionWarDog
sPzAbt653, thanks for the feedback. Regarding leaders and HQ, how do you simulate leaders like, Lee, Sherman, Grant, Jackson, etc...in a ACW scenario or Rommel, Patton or Zuhkov in a divisional WW2 scenario. I would be curios to know.
Any side function/add-on to create victory or loss dialogs would work too but knowing their simplicity I think it would just be easier to add it to the game as a review dialog/window.
You guys really need to attempt to take this up with Bob. He is the current User Interface guy and would be the one to do the grunt work for adding anything like that to the game. Past experience would dictate you demonstrate what this would add to the game other than "GG WitE does it" or "because I want it". I'm sure there are some valid reasons.
Well, Commanders are already in the pipeline. (Hopefully, I'm not getting in trouble by saying that.)
Beyond that, my focus is on features that actually affect game play, not the UI. The UI got a lot of attention prior to the release, and now it's time for other things to get attention for a while. More over, I see this idea as a breach of fog-of-war. If anything, I would think that the individual loss reports need some FOW applied to them.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:02 am
by sPzAbt653
how do you simulate leaders
That depends on what effect you want leaders to have in a scenario. Everything is modifiable.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:53 am
by UnionWarDog
Bob, great news regarding the leaders/generals update. [:D]
In reference to a victory/loss summary dialog, it should be something VERY simple.
Example:
Equipment Type / Player1 / Player2
Infantry Losses / 634. / 873
Transport Losses /127. / 231
Artillery Lost / 87. / 129
Tank Losses / 263. / 411
Fighters Lost / 87. / 198
Bombers Lost / 34. / 12
Ships lost / 3. / 0
Casualty Totals / 785. / 1,538
Objectives Held / 400. / 200
VP TOTALS / 1938. / 985
Hopefully you aren't hinting that these changes are for the next release. If so, I have to hold tight and wait for the release of the TOAW5. [;)]
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:03 am
by UnionWarDog
Test to create Example dialog above
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:55 am
by sPzAbt653
Like this, it's the standard I&R screen, but add the green [switch sides], and when you switch sides hide the red and keep only the blue. Maybe that would work for those that want it, and if you don't want it you don't have to see it!
But Bob just said he is focusing on game play features, not UI features.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:42 am
by Lobster
They want individual man losses. At the moment there is nothing for that. And they don't feel they should have to do math.
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:57 am
by UnionWarDog
sPzAbt653/Bob/guys,
Don't get me wrong. There are many things I like about TOAW the JTS games are missing. As I mentioned before, the victory summary and leaders was missing from the game and I went back to JTS strategy games to fill the void. I was hoping that over the continual upgrades and releases that the missing pieces were finally added.
I'll hold tight and keep watching the forums and updates to see when/if this gets done. If so, *BAM!* I buy the latest version in a heart beat.
Only question, can I load my older maps and scenarios in the newer version or do I have to rebuild them?
RE: How to view enemy losses?
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:57 am
by Lobster
You could add a field like below but you would also have to add all of the supporting code. What's really irksome is people who say they want they want they want yet give no suggestions as to how their want can be accomplished.
