Matrix Games Forums

hard to see which units can move or not...the orange stripe on an orange counter

I see what you mean. I will look into tinting that orange strip a little darker so that it is obvious.

Would like to see the complete database, any chance you upload it?

I think this is it, look for mention of Derek Weichs at the top of the Briefing.

tm.asp?m=4397002

Here is what I came up with. I think you can definitely see it [:)]

Here is the file:

Stick it in both of the Nach Frankreich files as seen below:

The database just reinforces my conclusions about the PzIII.
The PzIIIH uses the same AP & AT values and that one was never produced with something else as the 5cm canon. But the AP & AT values of the PzIII used in the campaign have to match those of the Pz35 & 38 as they used a similar 3,7cm gun as the PzIII at that time.
The only hope against the heavier Allied tanks at that time was artillery, flak or a PzIV with a load of the better HEAT ammunition. In direct comparison most German tanks were outclassed by the Allied tanks when looking at armored and armor penetration. Just look at Arras, the Allies weren't stopped by the German tanks in the area but by artillery(10,5cm) and flak(the famous 8,8cm).

If one is worried about the capabilities of the PzIII, the way TOAW calculates armor penetration is very generous so no need to worry. Even anti-tank values of 3 would still allow to kill tanks with armor ratings of up to 12. 12 is the highest armor rating that the Allies have and its used on the Matilda II tanks.
And because of that it also makes sense to give the PzI & PzII realistic values because a PzII would currently be able to kill a Matilda II, but that is something that surely never happened in real life nor should it be possible. An Anti-tank rating of 2 would only prohibit the PzII of killing Matilda I & II and the famous Char B1 bis, all other Allied tanks could still be killed even with such an rating.

If one wonders, I would like to play the Germans myself but not with a tank forces that is more capable than it was.

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Here is what I came up with. I think you can definitely see it [:)]

That'll work[:)]

Neon Pink? Well......why not? This is the 21st Century after all.

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Here is what I came up with. I think you can definitely see it [:)]

Some people seem to think this color scheme is serious. Fooled them, didn't you.


Neon pink, really, hell of a good military color.


Regards, RhinoBones

Guys, give me a better choice that can be seen on all counters. I have already tried several combinations of lighter and darker Orange and Brown. Yellow and Red are already used. It also has to be seen on the German Grey, Black, Field Gray and Brown. Once you find that color let me know, I'll gladly change it.

Oh. Well, I didn't know about all those constraints. Given
the situation I'd say that Neon Pink is just what the Doctor
ordered. I always thought Neon Pink was the color you used
to designate the transparent areas on PNG files.

Duke - It could be my mistake, here is what I use:
37mm L/45, [TOAW III-D]
37mm L/45, [TOAW III-E]

50mm L/42, [TOAW III-F]
50mm L/42, [TOAW III-G]
50mm L/42, [TOAW III-H]

50mm L/60, [TOAW III-J]

There are only IIIE's and IIIF's in this scenario. Ok, I tried to bounce this off on Derek, but that probably isn't fair as he isn't readily available. But I do mean it when I say I really don't want to get involved in a discussion about it because there are things involved other than matching up penetration numbers to armor thickness, so I have to defer to the creator of the database, only he knows how he accounted for all factors. Stat Comparison is only one aspect. We've playtested this one a lot and haven't detected any related issue, so I don't think this should undermine your confidence in the scenario.

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Guys, give me a better choice that can be seen on all counters. I have already tried several combinations of lighter and darker Orange and Brown. Yellow and Red are already used. It also has to be seen on the German Grey, Black, Field Gray and Brown. Once you find that color let me know, I'll gladly change it.

I understand exactly. Once the better color combinations get used up, its difficult to find a good match. Color contrast, historical colors, point of view, and design considerations are hard to balance.

Keep up the good work.

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Guys, give me a better choice that can be seen on all counters. I have already tried several combinations of lighter and darker Orange and Brown. Yellow and Red are already used. It also has to be seen on the German Grey, Black, Field Gray and Brown. Once you find that color let me know, I'll gladly change it.

How about a white or very light grey strip? Might work if all the numbers are dark colors.

Cheers

Light Grey isn't good because many German units are Grey. Here is White:

Mmm, lots of constraints ... including the size of the font used for the numbers. If they didn't exceed the boundary of the strip, the white look would not be bad. But the numbers are harder to interpret when they spill into the counter background at the same time.

Cheers

Regarding the color, if neon pink worked then stay with it. The color is there to get your attention and that seems to work, not sure why one wants something more "appropriate".

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Duke - It could be my mistake, here is what I use:
37mm L/45, [TOAW III-D]
37mm L/45, [TOAW III-E]

50mm L/42, [TOAW III-F]
50mm L/42, [TOAW III-G]
50mm L/42, [TOAW III-H]

50mm L/60, [TOAW III-J]

The problem is simple that the PzIII is a mess regarding its armament, usually you would expect German equipment to be more orderly designated but that did not happen with the PzIII. The upgrade from a 3,7cm to a short 5cm and then a long 5cm did not go along the versions but it simply happened at a point in time in the production cycle of these many versions.
F production only received the short 5cm in the last 25% of its production while the G(that ran for some time parallel to the F) received it in the last 66% of its production. So there are F & G versions with the short 3,7 and that was the case at the start of Barbarossa. "Panzer Divisions - The Eastern Front 1941-43" by Pier Paolo Battistelli give some numbers and for the 22.06.1941 there were 259 PzIII with a 3,7 in the panzer divisions. 259 is more than the production run from the A to E version so it's clear that even a year after the Battle for France there seem to be F/G with the short 3,7cm gun.
That mess went on with the long 5cm but that isn't my scope here. I just note that the J version was produces since March 1941 but the long 5cm was not introduced before December 1941, so you will have short and long 5cm J versions at a certain point in time.

Hopefully Derek replies but if he wasn't around for 4 years I think that is unlikely.

the numbers are harder to interpret

Drat, my fault. The white was running into the bottom of the icon, so I clipped it. I can't win.

did not go along the versions but it simply happened at a point in time in the production cycle

But to me none of that matters to scenario design as long as we follow some guideline, which is why I arranged them the way I did [for my benefit]. Of course, nobody knows that but me [and now you], but when I put together the TOE's I know what I am doing, or at least I think I know what I am doing. As long as the scenario plays out within expectations, it should all be good.