Matrix Games Forums

Not to mention any ships coming in there will be considered destroyed as well with no replacements.

1) Don't mind Gorn, he is.... gorn. A VEEEEEERRRRRRYYYYY special perso.....gorn.
Just enjoy his antics.

2) This is the most disorganized forum for any game I have been on, it is very hard for a new player to find anything.
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3) The forum is disorganized trash, but the players WILL answer all your questions. Some in their own inimitable way [:D]

4) Yo, I betta answer your question. You see, the Allied side DOES have a production side [8D]
It is pilot training. Max out your training air squadrons in USA, Canada, Aden (?) etc, and put them all on Train 100%.
Fighters train on ESCORT.
Level bombers on.... level bombing.
Stormers (my opinion, things like American A20) on storming.
Dive bombers on naval attack. Maybe you want some ASW for some of them?
Torpedo bombers on naval attack. IMPORTANT - the land HQ unit in the hex MUST HAVE TORPEDOES in itself (say 20) for them to train.
So move your torpedo squadrons to a base that has a HQ with torpedoes in it. Add torpedoes to a HQ (manually, it's a thing).
Patrols (Catalinas etc) on naval search.


NOW..... train ALL squadrons on height 5000 feet. You see, 5000 feet or below down to 1000 they train their main thing you setup for training AND also DEFENSIVE i.e. how they dodge enemy attack. So fighters TRAIN ESCORT 100% at 5000ft trains both air-to-air combat AND DEFENSIVE (dodging enemy fighter attacks). You DO want your planes and crews to survive, right?

Exception - your dive bombers train at 10,000 feet. Because dive bombing ONLY is done from 10K to 13K feet. So when you train DB, you dont train DEFENSE. Oh well.
Exception - train stormers at 100 feet. That way they train strafing. Again, no Defense train [:(]

You're welcome.
Any other questions, ask on forum. You WILL get an answer.

5) PS
Allies DO have a REAL production system of course. If India and/or Australia or New Zealand don't get the needed fuel, their factories WILL STOP producing planes, weapons etc. So, all jokes aside, of course Alies DO HAVE A PRODUCTION SYSTEM. To keep the Allied Production running, organize some convoys into Australia, India with tankers. After all, the whole Guadalcanal campaign in WW2 was about LOC (line of communication) between USA and Australia. The whole Burma campaign was about cutting the Burma road, i.e. supplies from Allies to China (oh wait, China production, that is another Allied production you have to monitor. Some players turn off some factories here, some repair, some don't. So ANOTHER Allied production).

How about them apples, everybody.

Timotheus: Your trying, but your fine efforts are wasted here.

If people want to post on threads that are not their own and information that is not relevant there is NO
chance of intelligent posting. The thread is actually meaningless. Ask the Gorn.

The real issue is how many games does a player have to experience before they are allowed to start a thread.
Should the manual be required reading?

One day the forum supervisors will figure this out and start to revoke people's posting privileges.
I could easily say that all trekkies are "Just a piece of s*it" and no one in charge will have an issue with it.
I also had better administrator controls, last century, over the 934 users I managed.

Pilot Training is not production, it is what it is, same for IJ player.

Well, for being "disorganized trash" this forum sure does seem to be popular.

Neither of you two are making any headway here in establishing friendships or even working relationships with other forum members.

Peruse my post history (rather lengthy) for an understanding of where I come from.

My early days here were filled with extreme criticism and vitriol as I passionately pursued my personal agenda to descry the unfairness of the game developers in giving so many breaks and a-historical advantages to the Japanese side.

I was more than a bit of a pariah back then.

I woke up to the reality that game is what it is and the forum is what it is and neither is going to conform to my perception of what it should be.

In other words, I finally grew up and learned to behave like an adult instead of a petulant adolescent. Bout time since I be turning 62 this Saturday.

Casting aspersions at the forum and the forum regulars is nothing but counterproductive. Sure, it may make you feel good about yourself for a short time that you 'stood up' for yourself, but in the long run it odes you no good.

At a certain point people will just start ignoring you.

p.s.:

See my latest post in CRs AAR, Notes From a Small Island, for an example of how I am still capable of descrying the Japanese bias of the developers on occasion. Old habits die hard. [8D]

ORIGINAL: Aksully

Thanks Cano, All Gorn had to do was say it was a stupid question and moved on. Obviously he has other more real world issues. I just started reading through the manual. I checked the forums and saw the thread about Japanese production ideas and thought I'd ask the same question from the Allied side. I should have read through the manual fully first to see that the Allied production was automated. I simply asked the question with the intention of looking to do a PBEM game in the future. But no longer interested in that now. I'll just load the game and learn as I go. I do appreciate your reply. No need for further posts. I've learned the lesson.

The Gorn sometimes get agitated by new scents lurking about his lair. He's usually amenable and is known to make some pretty witty remarks when his heating lamp is working properly.

Others have answered your question - Allied production management is essentially limited to turning aircraft upgrades on/off. This is good because you'll have plenty to learn without it. Ok, so why would you turn off an upgrade? Usually it is to retain some attribute that is preferable on the older model. Aircraft with many upgrades tend to trade reduced range for higher engine performance as the war progresses. If you favor the better range, you may elect to keep the older model in production. The same goes for armament - some aircraft have significant changes to armament from one model to the next. You may prefer one over the other.

Also, don't worry about asking questions on the forums. If you browse around a bit, you'll see thread after thread of questions being answered. Talking about the game is one of the best ways to learn it.

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Well, for being "disorganized trash" this forum sure does seem to be popular.

Neither of you two are making any headway here in establishing friendships or even working relationships with other forum members.

Peruse my post history (rather lengthy) for an understanding of where I come from.

My early days here were filled with extreme criticism and vitriol as I passionately pursued my personal agenda to descry the unfairness of the game developers in giving so many breaks and a-historical advantages to the Japanese side.

I was more than a bit of a pariah back then.

I woke up to the reality that game is what it is and the forum is what it is and neither is going to conform to my perception of what it should be.

In other words, I finally grew up and learned to behave like an adult instead of a petulant adolescent. Bout time since I be turning 62 this Saturday.

Casting aspersions at the forum and the forum regulars is nothing but counterproductive. Sure, it may make you feel good about yourself for a short time that you 'stood up' for yourself, but in the long run it odes you no good.

At a certain point people will just start ignoring you.

Couldn't agree more. And Happy Birthday Hans. Many more...
.GP

Ah, the ranting days of Castor Troy! Das war Zeiten!

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

1) Don't mind Gorn, he is.... gorn. A VEEEEEERRRRRRYYYYY special perso.....gorn.
Just enjoy his antics.

+1

2) This is the most disorganized forum for any game I have been on, it is very hard for a new player to find anything.
Lemme list you some gold:

tm.asp?m=4415089 install tool written by user, very good, automated

https://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/
tm.asp?m=2576157
http://mathubert.free.fr/witp_files/witp_tips.htm
tm.asp?m=2260137
tm.asp?m=2920431
http://www.netwargamingitalia.net/forum ... faq.13825/
tm.asp?m=2825013
tm.asp?m=3329605

3) The forum is disorganized trash, but the players WILL answer all your questions. Some in their own inimitable way [:D]

Disagree. The content seems disorganized because the game is so complex and so many questions brought up by players connect to several issues. Answering all the ifs, ands and buts makes a long, meandering thread. Then we try to throw in some humour to keep people awake! But the responses are hard to put into categories because of the complexity of the game.

4) Yo, I betta answer your question. You see, the Allied side DOES have a production side [8D]

It is pilot training. Max out your training air squadrons in USA, Canada, Aden (?) etc, and put them all on Train 100%.

Training squadrons are the permanently restricted ones you cannot ship to the front or fly to a base that is under different administration than the squadron.

Fighters train on ESCORT.

Or Sweep will work too. Both Escort and Sweep train Air skill. I train fighters at 1000 feet because that will also train Defensive skill and I have not seen any benefit to training fighters at higher altitude.

Level bombers on.... level bombing.

There are two missions that use "level bombing", but they train different skills. GrndB skill trains for mission types Ground Attack, Airfield Attack, Port Attack and City Attack. For NavB Skill set training to Naval Attack.

Stormers (my opinion, things like American A20) on storming.

The game term is Attack Bombers. They are supposed to fly low-level and bomb and strafe. The missions that train the skill are the same as the Level Bomber ones, but they must be flown at 1000 feet or 100 feet to train LowG or LowN. The Strafe skill only trains at 100 feet, and this altitude will have the greatest effect on your Defensive skill training. Note that these Attack bomber missions can be flown by fighters as well, if you want to train some of them in those skills.

Dive bombers on naval attack. Maybe you want some ASW for some of them?

Dive bombers can fly any mission that other bombers can. Naval attack is their primary mission but they can also train in ASW, Naval Search, Recon, and GrndB. Decide how you expect to use them and then train the skills that correspond with the mission type.

Torpedo bombers on naval attack. IMPORTANT - the land HQ unit in the hex MUST HAVE TORPEDOES in itself (say 20) for them to train.

This is not correct. Training in NavT skill can be done without actually carrying torpedoes, but the mission Naval Attack does require that you have torpedoes at an Air HQ within range or in your Carrier stock. If there are no torpedoes available the Torpedo Bombers will carry bombs. I train my TBs in Naval Attack at 1000 feet with weapon set to Torpedoes so I get Defensive Skill training as well. Mission altitude is whatever I want to use because the TBs drop down to 200' automatically during their torp attack.

So move your torpedo squadrons to a base that has a HQ with torpedoes in it. Add torpedoes to a HQ (manually, it's a thing).

Or just within range of an Air HQ with torpedoes. The base should have good supply - each torpedo costs 10 supply points. You can add them to the Air HQ in batches up to 20, or just set the TOE for the Air HQ to hold whatever number of torpedoes you decide and it will stock them at the end of each turn.

Patrols (Catalinas etc) on naval search. [quote] Naval Search can be done by most any type of plane, but long range and the ability to land on water make patrol aircraft the most effective at this. Train NavS at 1000 feet. The game designers have told us the recommended altitude for Naval Search mission is 6000 feet as the best compromise between spotting accuracy and distance seen. I.E. you can fly at higher altitudes but are more likely to miss small ships/subs or you can fly at lower altitudes and are more likely to miss them by not seeing far enough in your search arc.

NOW..... train ALL squadrons on height 5000 feet. You see, 5000 feet or below down to 1000 they train their main thing you setup for training AND also DEFENSIVE i.e. how they dodge enemy attack. So fighters TRAIN ESCORT 100% at 5000ft trains both air-to-air combat AND DEFENSIVE (dodging enemy fighter attacks). You DO want your planes and crews to survive, right?

This is no longer correct. About 5 years ago a major update to the game re-defined missions and got rid of Glide Bombing mission. Instead of < 6000 feet as the threshold for low level attacks, that was lowered to < 2000 feet. So training and flying missions at 2000 feet and above trains Defensive skill much more slowly than flying at 1000 feet or 100 feet.

Exception - your dive bombers train at 10,000 feet. Because dive bombing ONLY is done from 10K to 13K feet. So when you train DB, you dont train DEFENSE. Oh well.

This has also changed. There is no mission type or skill for "Dive Bombing Attack". Dive bombing is included in the Naval Attack, Ground Attack, Airfield Attack, Port Attack and I think City Attack missions. The altitude still determines if they dive bomb or level bomb. The new altitude settings for a dive bombing attack to take place are 10-15K and another band at 20-25 K (not sure about the last one - never use it). Training of DB pilots can be done as low as 2000 feet, but you decide which mission they train for. The skill they train will apply to their dive bombing when they fly that mission at the dive-bombing altitude.

Exception - train stormers at 100 feet. That way they train strafing. Again, no Defense train [:(]

Training at 100 feet will train mostly the Strafe skill but will also greatly boost the Defensive skill. Training can be switched to 1000 feet to train the LOWG and LOWN skills. During a low level mission with Attack bombers or fighters, if you choose 1000 feet altitude they will bomb with a bit of strafing too. If you set 100 feet they will all strafe and drop bombs but are much more vulnerable to small caliber AA fire.

You're welcome.
Any other questions, ask on forum. You WILL get an answer.

5) PS
Allies DO have a REAL production system of course. If India and/or Australia or New Zealand don't get the needed fuel, their factories WILL STOP producing planes, weapons etc. So, all jokes aside, of course Alies DO HAVE A PRODUCTION SYSTEM. To keep the Allied Production running, organize some convoys into Australia, India with tankers. After all, the whole Guadalcanal campaign in WW2 was about LOC (line of communication) between USA and Australia. The whole Burma campaign was about cutting the Burma road, i.e. supplies from Allies to China (oh wait, China production, that is another Allied production you have to monitor. Some players turn off some factories here, some repair, some don't. So ANOTHER Allied production).

True, but because many Allied players find it easier to just haul massive amounts of supply and fuel to the countries needing them, they treat the production system for supply (HI and LI) and fuel (Refineries) as superfluous. Because the game models these industries, I try to actually feed them the Oil, Fuel and Resources they need. Just my preference.

How about them apples, everybody.

A little bruised maybe, but pretty good! Thanks Timotheus!

[/quote]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Well, for being "disorganized trash" this forum sure does seem to be popular.

Neither of you two are making any headway here in establishing friendships or even working relationships with other forum members.

Peruse my post history (rather lengthy) for an understanding of where I come from.

My early days here were filled with extreme criticism and vitriol as I passionately pursued my personal agenda to descry the unfairness of the game developers in giving so many breaks and a-historical advantages to the Japanese side.

I was more than a bit of a pariah back then.

I woke up to the reality that game is what it is and the forum is what it is and neither is going to conform to my perception of what it should be.

In other words, I finally grew up and learned to behave like an adult instead of a petulant adolescent. Bout time since I be turning 62 this Saturday.

Casting aspersions at the forum and the forum regulars is nothing but counterproductive. Sure, it may make you feel good about yourself for a short time that you 'stood up' for yourself, but in the long run it odes you no good.

At a certain point people will just start ignoring you.

Well said, Hans but I think pariah is too strong a word for the way I thought about you! You certainly had keen observations about the game that were needed when we were all just trying to figure out how it works, but you were also passionate about historical accuracy. I thought similarly until the developers or Alfred made it clear that the Japanese had to have ahistorical advantages for the IJ players to be able to have some fun and make the game last a bit longer before Japan was defenseless. At that point I had to switch to the "It's a game, not a simulator" mantra.

I still look forward to your observations because they do reveal how the game handles things and that insight might help me in similar situations. Keep posting!
And it's OK to vent about your frustrations with the game as long as you let us duck!

And BTW - a few days early but Happy Birthday!

BB, the category is actually Attack bombers not Assault bombers.

Unlike level bombers, Attack bombers do not suffer the penalty of using extended range reduced bomb loads when bombing at 1,000 feet or lower.

Another fine point for newbies to learn is that capabilities vary across different models of a given air frame type.

Not all A20s are attack bombers, some are level bombers.

Not all A26s are attack bombers, some are level bombers.

And the mistake made most often by newbies is presuming all models of the Corsair are carrier capable.

It's important to examine each variant model of a given air frame type to learn its capabilities.

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

BB, the category is actually Attack bombers not Assault bombers.

Unlike level bombers, Attack bombers do not suffer the penalty of using extended range reduced bomb loads when bombing at 1,000 feet or lower.

Good points Hans! I will change the bomber type in my post.

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Or Sweep will work too. Both Escort and Sweep train Air skill. I train fighters at 1000 feet because that will also train Defensive skill and I have not seen any benefit to training fighters at higher altitude.

Thank you for that insight. I've been training my fighter pilots in two phases as per many of the air training guides out there - 1st training escort at 10k for air skill and 2nd training sweep at 100ft for defensive skill. It would simplify things immensely if 1k alt covers both.

Think of the game as a series of training exercises. You've got all the short games. You do them , as each side , against the AI. Then you do the same thing against a real person. Next you play the "grand campaign", 1st against the AI , then against a person or persons. The Japanese side of the Grand campaign is the hardest , final series of training exercise in the package. When you've mastered every single other aspect of the game , THEN it's time for the "post-graduate" courses. And as any student of the second world war will tell you , it's the power of economics that make WW2 so unique. It would be relatively easy to run the allied production system (just leave it as it is). All you'd probably do is cripple it , and the allies would still win. But Japan's system could only improve. Hence , you learn to play "Factory manager in the Pacific" as the Japanese.

My apologies for the Gorn's ill temper. It's largely due to me. Despite his really excellent playing as the Japanese in our game , It's fall of 1943 and things for him are beginning to fail. He doesn't respond well to my kicking his.....butt. [:D] It's starting to show. [:D]

ORIGINAL: Korvar

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Or Sweep will work too. Both Escort and Sweep train Air skill. I train fighters at 1000 feet because that will also train Defensive skill and I have not seen any benefit to training fighters at higher altitude.

Thank you for that insight. I've been training my fighter pilots in two phases as per many of the air training guides out there - 1st training escort at 10k for air skill and 2nd training sweep at 100ft for defensive skill. It would simplify things immensely if 1k alt covers both.

Well I was looking for confirmation of my observation that the Air skill did not train any faster at altitude. I have been wrong about the odd thing, but I will not list them for fear of breaking the board!

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Korvar

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Or Sweep will work too. Both Escort and Sweep train Air skill. I train fighters at 1000 feet because that will also train Defensive skill and I have not seen any benefit to training fighters at higher altitude.

Thank you for that insight. I've been training my fighter pilots in two phases as per many of the air training guides out there - 1st training escort at 10k for air skill and 2nd training sweep at 100ft for defensive skill. It would simplify things immensely if 1k alt covers both.

Well I was looking for confirmation of my observation that the Air skill did not train any faster at altitude. I have been wrong about the odd thing, but I will not list them for fear of breaking the board!

This is complete mud. Can you clarify or post a link?

Folks,
I think it's safe to say I learned my lesson on posting a dumb question about WITP AE. I regret doing it. And I'd rather not have this turn out to be a verbal brawl. So let's call a truce and I'll move on. I do appreciate the helpful comments. Thx

Aye Aye Sir, well said.
But don't regret anything though, the question was fine. The crowd (including myself) quite less so.

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Think of the game as a series of training exercises. You've got all the short games. You do them , as each side , against the AI. Then you do the same thing against a real person. Next you play the "grand campaign", 1st against the AI , then against a person or persons. The Japanese side of the Grand campaign is the hardest , final series of training exercise in the package. When you've mastered every single other aspect of the game , THEN it's time for the "post-graduate" courses. And as any student of the second world war will tell you , it's the power of economics that make WW2 so unique. It would be relatively easy to run the allied production system (just leave it as it is). All you'd probably do is cripple it , and the allies would still win. But Japan's system could only improve. Hence , you learn to play "Factory manager in the Pacific" as the Japanese.

My apologies for the Gorn's ill temper. It's largely due to me. Despite his really excellent playing as the Japanese in our game , It's fall of 1943 and things for him are beginning to fail. He doesn't respond well to my kicking his.....butt. [:D] It's starting to show. [:D]

[:D]

ORIGINAL: WingCmdr


Actually fishface, are you practicing any religion? Why do YOU bring it up at all?

You don't know me and you say this?
I don't even violate the forum rules and you question my Christianity?

ORIGINAL: Aksully

Folks,
I think it's safe to say I learned my lesson on posting a dumb question about WITP AE. I regret doing it. And I'd rather not have this turn out to be a verbal brawl. So let's call a truce and I'll move on. I do appreciate the helpful comments. Thx

Aksully,

Don't worry about your initial post. We've all made similar posts in our pasts with this game and we've all done a good portion of the boners that all new players do. It's partly experience with the game and partly through experience with the forum. Both will temper your 'adjustment' to your new way of life with WiTP:AE. I do trust that you will welcome your new WiTP:AE overlord?

Welcome to the forum and hope to see you around more. [8D]