Page 2 of 4
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:02 am
by sPzAbt653
How does one get to the "old" editor?
The Original Editor is right where it always was. The 'New' editor is not complete [and from what our project manager says it will not be completed] and can cause crashes if used, but can be seen by hitting 'U'. I've found that equipment changes are quite easy in the 'new' editor, but otherwise it is not worth using.
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:59 am
by Blond_Knight
So does the "go to editor" drop-down in the game and the editor button on the main screen point to the old editor or the new?
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:50 pm
by Zovs
That is the old editor. What you see in the formation and unit editor on the map (so to speak) are the new editor features.
What!
he 'New' editor is not complete [and from what our project manager says it will not be completed] and can cause crashes if used
That is crap!
It's broken in it's current state and needs to be fix!
Maybe a new Project Manager is needed and some new programmers?
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:39 pm
by Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight
So does the "go to editor" drop-down in the game and the editor button on the main screen point to the old editor or the new?
They are referring to the Force Editor, not the overall Editor.
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:51 pm
by Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
The 'New' editor is not complete [and from what our project manager says it will not be completed]...
A falsehood.
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:58 pm
by 76mm
hmmm, I don't recall reading about any major impending changes/fixes...could you enlighten us about all this higher priority stuff?
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:04 pm
by Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: 76mm
hmmm, I don't recall reading about any major impending changes/fixes...could you enlighten us about all this higher priority stuff?
That's something you'll have to get from Tamas.
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:43 pm
by Lobster
ORIGINAL: Zovs
Maybe a new Project Manager is needed and some new programmers?
The project manager is not broken. What is broken is his support. It's like trying to pull a load of fertilizer to the field with a tractor that has only one wheel.
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:48 pm
by larryfulkerson
ORIGINAL: Zovs
Maybe a new Project Manager is needed and some new programmers?
I think a careful analysis of the past performance of the TOAW Beta team in general will reflect that there needs to be a complete overhall. A new Program Manager, new Developer(s), and a new team of testers are all needed before any serious progress can be contemplated.
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:19 pm
by sPzAbt653
ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
The 'New' editor is not complete [and from what our project manager says it will not be completed]...
A falsehood.
A step in the right direction, but this didn't just come to light, it has been an issue for four years. And while none of this probably should officially be discussed in public, we've been trying on the development forum, also for years, with no luck. So something needs to be done and that part of the community that isn't actually aware deserves to know.
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:46 am
by Lobster
Prioritize or not, when an incomplete tool that causes a ctd is included in the release without a word about the fact that it is incomplete then doubts about the quality of work will most certainly arise. Something should pop up as soon as the editor is started warning about how an incomplete portion of the editor will cause a ctd if someone attempts to use it. Of course that's just my opinion. Not worth anything on the stock market. [;)]
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:12 am
by larryfulkerson
Prioritize or not, when an incomplete tool that causes a ctd is included in the release without a word about the fact that it is incomplete then doubts about the quality of work will most certainly arise. Something should pop up as soon as the editor is started warning about how an incomplete portion of the editor will cause a ctd if someone attempts to use it. Of course that's just my opinion. Not worth anything on the stock market.
It's my personal opinion that nothing else should happen on the beta team until this editor issue is fixed. Something this serious should not be released to the public. Not even with a warning popup. TOAW IV is broken. I'll admit it even if others won't. It's not nearly ready for release yet. It wasn't when it was released. Someone in charge should do something immediately if not sooner. Something like this could very well kill the TOAW community. Not a national emergency, I realize, but still important to lots of us, hence the urgency.
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:26 am
by Zovs
The fact that the manual (which has its own issues) states:
These are the issues that are planned to be addressed in a future update.
And:
17.11.5. unIt report
This report has a lot of differences with the one in the game. It has a lot of similarities to the Force Editor, in fact. You can set the Unit Name, Size, Color scheme, Icon, Secondary Icon, Add/Remove Equipment, change the amounts of Assigned/Authorized Equipment, and set the Unit Supply, Readiness, and Proficiency. You also change the Untried/Veteran status here, as you always did.
This is not currently true, if you try to set the Color scheme, Icon, or Secondary Icon it will cause a CTD every time. Also not every feature mentioned in this passage is entirely true, for example you can’t change the veteran status it does not work.
Also in very large and complex scenarios just playing the scenario at one point (further investigation is needed to determine why) the game will CTD.
The manual needs an overhaul with further clarifications provided (exemplified by the forum posts with confusion).
TOAW IV has added a lot of nice new features but at the same time has introduced many defects that should have been corrected over the last 4 years with the priority on fixing CTDs and missing or incomplete functionality.
I love TOAW almost as much as Steel Panthers, I have been playing it since ‘98 in various forms, please patch up our old sick friend he deserves it.
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:16 am
by Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: Lobster
Prioritize or not, when an incomplete tool that causes a ctd is included in the release without a word about the fact that it is incomplete then doubts about the quality of work will most certainly arise. Something should pop up as soon as the editor is started warning about how an incomplete portion of the editor will cause a ctd if someone attempts to use it. Of course that's just my opinion. Not worth anything on the stock market. [;)]
I don't know when the ctd issue cropped up, but for sure we didn't know about it at launch or even well after the launch. We can't fix problems we don't know about. This has only recently been brought to our attention. The fact that the new Force Editor was not complete and was a future project
was not kept secret at launch.
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:19 am
by Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: Zovs
The fact that the manual (which has its own issues) states:
These are the issues that are planned to be addressed in a future update.
And:
17.11.5. unIt report
This report has a lot of differences with the one in the game. It has a lot of similarities to the Force Editor, in fact. You can set the Unit Name, Size, Color scheme, Icon, Secondary Icon, Add/Remove Equipment, change the amounts of Assigned/Authorized Equipment, and set the Unit Supply, Readiness, and Proficiency. You also change the Untried/Veteran status here, as you always did.
This is not currently true, if you try to set the Color scheme, Icon, or Secondary Icon it will cause a CTD every time. Also not every feature mentioned in this passage is entirely true, for example you can’t change the veteran status it does not work.
Also in very large and complex scenarios just playing the scenario at one point (further investigation is needed to determine why) the game will CTD.
The manual needs an overhaul with further clarifications provided (exemplified by the forum posts with confusion).
TOAW IV has added a lot of nice new features but at the same time has introduced many defects that should have been corrected over the last 4 years with the priority on fixing CTDs and missing or incomplete functionality.
I love TOAW almost as much as Steel Panthers, I have been playing it since ‘98 in various forms, please patch up our old sick friend he deserves it.
Again, your timeline for our knowledge of these issues is erroneous. I don't care when the issues actually were encoded. The clock doesn't start till we learn about them.
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:32 am
by 76mm
ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
I don't know when the ctd issue cropped up, but for sure we didn't know about it at launch or even well after the launch. We can't fix problems we don't know about. This has only recently been brought to our attention.
OK, fair enough, but honestly this seems like something that should have been caught during beta testing--it is not hard to reproduce.
ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
The fact that the new Force Editor was not complete and was a future project was not kept secret at launch.
Again fair enough, but here we are years into the future and still no apparent progress, or news about when/if such progress will be made, etc.
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:44 am
by Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: 76mm
OK, fair enough, but honestly this seems like something that should have been caught during beta testing--it is not hard to reproduce.
Ah, good! Let's castigate Larry, Jack, & Steve for a while. [:D]
Seriously, though, they're harder to find than you think.
Again fair enough, but here we are years into the future and still no apparent progress, or news about when/if such progress will be made, etc.
I leave that to Tamas. Badger him. But, really, what are such estimates worth? Nobody knows when something will be ready until just before it is launched.
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:22 pm
by Lobster
ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: 76mm
OK, fair enough, but honestly this seems like something that should have been caught during beta testing--it is not hard to reproduce.
Ah, good! Let's castigate Larry, Jack, & Steve for a while. [:D]
Seriously, though, they're harder to find than you think.
Let's not. Let's castigate whoever didn't bother reading bug reports. This was reported back in December 2017 both in the Dev forum and the open forum. I'll link the open forum since it's uh...open.
tm.asp?m=4394062
Now I'm sure some defense will be used like it was reported in the wrong forum or something else. But it was tested and found to be bugged badly and reported in the Dev forum. It's called a fatal exception error or fatal error. These are the ones that are typically fixed first. But this one has never been touched.
BTW, why no patch lately?
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:29 pm
by Zovs
Bob,
Well I want to thank you for at least acknowledged the issue and giving an update (of sorts) on where the patches may be at.
If you need another test let me know I'd be more than happy to help out.
Hopefully the Editor can be polished off and fixed as soon as possible.
Don
RE: Deployment Mode
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:39 pm
by Bamilus
Well, regardless of the status, I'm glad they have kept this game alive, even if it's just life-support at times. I'm a young wargamer in my late 20's so I wouldn't have known this game if the 3rd and 4th editions weren't made. I hope to contribute more with some AAR's once I start digging in more but I've had some health issues I've been dealing with which has limited my time.