Reflections on WiTE

[MattFL]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I am the same as the OP in that for ASL and WITE I need to dedicate 100% game time with no other game as a distraction. Right now I am returning to ASL. I last played it about 18 months ago. I do the same, I play it intensely for a while and then take a break. I play it via vassal and FTF. But I prefer FTF.

I was looking forward to a game that looked very much like a PC version of ASL called Second Front, but it appears it is a AI only game. That kind of game has never appealed to me. I only play other people. I get nothing from playing a machine.

I was looking forward to WITE2.0 but I am no longer interested in the micro management aspects these type of games anymore so I don't think I will ever play it. I have my eye on Warplan, which so far looks pretty good.

I started with Panzer Leader in 1976. There have been many dozens of games both board and PC since then that I have played. ASL takes out the best board game for me.

But for PC, while WITE was great for it's day I think it is showing it's age now. My vote for best PC game would go to JT's Panzer Campaigns. I started playing them in 2003 and still do. I love the campaign games. You need to be good tactically, operationally and to an extent strategically to do well in those big campaign games.

AI only games are dreadful despite how good the design may be.

I too am thinking of a return to ASL. I really just love that game, it's incredibly tense and so much random shit happens that makes every playing, even the same scenario, totally unique. Greatest game ever made. RB CG III is the best game ASL has ever produced. The pinnacle of wargaming to me. I could defend or storm the barrikady forever and i'd die a happy man.

[Michael T]

Yes I have played many RB CG III games. Easily the best Historical ASL CG experience. As an aside I made a small fortune selling my Black SS counters from ABTF a few years ago. I never used them (they were unpunched) and I had two copies. People on ebay went nuts over them.

[MattFL]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Yes I have played many RB CG III games. Easily the best Historical ASL CG experience. As an aside I made a small fortune selling my Black SS counters from ABTF a few years ago. I never used them (they were unpunched) and I had two copies. People on ebay went nuts over them.

Hmm...really? I have ABTF, never used, never punched. Perhaps I should hawk my ASL stuff.....

PM me and i'll send you the greatest gift you've ever received (seriously).

Matt

[Michael T]

A quick look at BGG and I saw a copy of ABTF going for 650 euro's.

[MattFL]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

A quick look at BGG and I saw a copy of ABTF going for 650 euro's.

Goddamn!

Send me that PM, you won't be disappointed. [:)]

[Seminole]

Started here when I was 15.

[56ajax]

Loved it

[MattFL]

ORIGINAL: Seminole

Started here when I was 15.

SSI made some great games didn't they?

[Hanny]

You young folk....[:)]

First board game i bought was Panzer Blitz, around 1972/3 but started with miniatures a little before then and of course D and D, i still have the first edition and the first white dwarf magazine. Panzer blitz evolved into Panzer leader and then Squad Leader and of course ASL stayed with both board and miniatures, ( really liked mega games like Terrible swift sword https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/357 ... sburg-game and all the other WBTS games they did, Drag nag osten https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/694 ... nach-osten) 3rd Reich https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/156 ... hird-reich, For the People https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/833/people, Pax Romanahttps://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/17393/pax-romana block wargames are also an interest like Triumph and Tradegy https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/130 ... ph-tragedy, Bobby Lee https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/82/bobby-lee till computers came along, started with a spectrum zx, then a C64 before getting a PC, and the miniatures went out the picture when graphic cards made painting up an army for WRG a seem like a chore in comparison.

[King_Solomon]

SSI Second Front. No wonder I need glasses.

I love VASL because it allows me to play boardgames that are just too large. At least until I can build that game room (we all have dreams). I work with an ASL junkie. How I wish I could get lost in a game for days! He is looking forward to a game called "Burden of Command". Might be worth checking out.

Hanny, you have an interesting list of games, thanks for sharing. I've always wanted to venture outside the WW2 era...I just don't know what to try.

[Hanny]

King_Solomon, your most welcome, i have found over the decades that a good designer is worth following, so for instance Philippe Malacher and https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamedesi ... pe-thibaut started out as boardgame designers and moved on to do pc games, adapting their better selling games into computer games, their latest is a masterpiece: ( if you like the ancient period and like tactical battles, then the FOG II tactical battle which you export into from the Empires campaign is one of the reasons i gave up figures).

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1011 ... y_Empires/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LW2xvHNqws

If you have a group to play with, then something like https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/103 ... videos/all is certainly well worth a look at.

My current fav game other the WiTe is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK9QGbU ... dex=9&t=0s

[Seminole]

My current fav game other the WiTe is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK9QGbU ... dex=9&t=0s

That game is a whole lot of fun.

I enjoyed hours with its spiritual predecessor, the Take Command games (I think you can get at least one of them still on Steam). It was fun to take a minor role under AIs direction, and to accept the command delay of issuing orders by dispatch rider (instead of hijacking direct control of sub units).

[Plateguy]

I first saw AH Battle of the Bulge '65 in 1966 when I was a 10 year old with a paper route on Pearl Harbor. In addition to docked ships, I peddled papers in the temporary sailor barracks. My parents bought me AH Guadalcanal in 1967 and I was hooked. I spent years with Strategy & Tactics magazine and Wargamer magazine.

Most of my board games were the more complex Simulations Publications Title such as Terrible Swift Sword and Gleam of Bayonets. Ranked right up there were Jim Dunnigan's War In the East and War In the West. Getting hooked on Gary Grigsby's titles was a natural development. I am particular drawn to the importance of logistics and the use of combined arms. They are easy games to lose.

I focus on solitaire play, because real life gets in the way. I hope that will change in 2021 when I will retire for a second time.

I also enjoy games from AGEOD and John Tiller Software. These give me a variety of games to play.

[joelmar]

To me wargaming is a secondary passion to music, which is itself a very demanding mistress, but still a very intense one. So I had long hiatuses from wargaming. When I found out about WitE, it had been close to 4 years I hadn't played anything at all.

My own background was:

1980's: Panzer Blitz and Rise and Decline of the Third Reich. I played both extensively with my co-locs, but after a while "Third Reich" became the sole game we would play, it was a quite complex game, on another level than WitE though, but it still needed all our attention.

1990's: I played a lot of "Velikye Luki - Beyond Valor" which was a corp sized game, with the smaller counters being battalions if I remember well. It was a game I played against the AI only, since I had no opponent back then. Also, I played Steel Panthers for a while.

2000's: Didn't play at all.

2012-2015: I played a lot of "Close Combat", a few titles in the series.

I always wanted to one day get to ASL, but never got round to it. One of the reasons is that I'm more into operational and strategic stuff than tactical, even if I also like the latter. But I still have a copy of one of the late eighties iteration of ASL. And I still have my Third Reich box too!

Anyway, from this long but limited experience (compared to many others in these forums), my own perception is that WitE is tough to beat, so probably one of the best computer wargame, if not the best. Most of what I'm looking for in a game is there, control of a large area, with a lot of troops, with enough micromanaging complexity to satisfy my need for it. The only big irritants fro me are the possibility to supply all of the armies from a single rail source, which will be fixed in WitE2, and the air war management. The latter I understand pretty well, kabuki and etc, but it just bores me no end to put my mind power in it.

[King_Solomon]

Haney - thanks for the recommendations, all look great! Ultimate General is on my Steam Wishlist. Guess it's time to give it a try. Looks like they will be adding a new title called Ultimate Admiral: Age of Sail. I've also wanted to try Scourge of War: Waterloo. But neither will overtake WitE. Like joelmar stated so well above, I too am more interested in the strategic and operational than tactical.

Joelmar - is music a full-time job or a full-time hobby?

Plateguy - I cannot imagine growing up with a paper route in Pearl Harbor. Or the stories you could tell.

It's interesting to read everyone's background, how they discovered some boardgame which led them to WitE like MattFL shared in the beginning. How right he was, it really is therapy!

[paogre]

First real board wargame I recall was Parker Brothers Civil War, one of the guys in the History Club in high school brought it in, that would be 1966, think of House Divided with plastic counter and you'd have some idea of what it was like. Then I discovered AH and SPI in the early 70's. Became a big fan of the monster games, still have several of those on the shelf in my den and have downloaded modules for ADC2 and Vassal for some of them. Saw my first computer game at Origins in 1977, a demo of East Front on the Atari 800 computer. A little while later I began to see pc wargames at the game store where I bought my boardgames and got myself an Atari 800XL. One of my favorite games was Grigsby's original War in Russia, the WeGo version, not as detailed as WitE but then I actually preferred not having to handle all the minute details you have to do in WitE. The semi-simultaneous movement made for some interesting turns with one side advancing only to have the other counterattack immediately and the interplay of the several movement phases. Still have my original Atari 800XL and the game but haven't had it out of the box in years. Found an Atari emulator for my pc and a download of WiR and do occasionally play it as well as a few other games from back then. Although it lacks the detail it has a much more historical feel to it than WitE IMO.

[countrboy]

Never got into boardgames but picked up my first strategy PC game with Desert Rats for the ZX Spectrum in the mid 1980's. Then added Arnhem, Vulcan and Overlord to my collection and the rest is (literally) history. At the moment it's WitE and Tiller's Panzer Campaigns, but I also have messed around with the Ultimate General games, the Strategic Command games and many many others.

Actually, regarding boardgames, a friend and I went 50/50 on AH's 'Rise and Decline of the Third Reich' many years ago. We took it home, started setting it up, got into an argument in the first ten minutes, packed it away and the box has sat on my bookshelf untouched for 20 years since that day.

[Hanny]

ORIGINAL: Seminole

My current fav game other the WiTe is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK9QGbU ... dex=9&t=0s

That game is a whole lot of fun.

I enjoyed hours with its spiritual predecessor, the Take Command games (I think you can get at least one of them still on Steam). It was fun to take a minor role under AIs direction, and to accept the command delay of issuing orders by dispatch rider (instead of hijacking direct control of sub units).

Have you looked at the J@P rebalance mod?. Really rather good.

https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/25749 ... 51-hotfix/

ORIGINAL: King_Solomon

Haney - thanks for the recommendations, all look great! Ultimate General is on my Steam Wishlist. Guess it's time to give it a try. Looks like they will be adding a new title called Ultimate Admiral: Age of Sail.

29 Oct is the next steam sale, while its worth the full price, no need to throw money away if its in the next sale!.

[Zovs]

My first wargame I invented in 1974, I had two sets of HO/HO miniatures, both were WW1 German and British infantry companies, I had not read about trench warfare yet so they were lined up in rows facing each other much like the civil war (as an 8 year I had not yet read about historical accuracy that would come two years later), and alternating between both side I took turns shooting rubber bands at them and last man standing side won the battle. I kept searching for better way to enhance my game over the next two years.

Then I discovered this box at a store and asked my mom if I could have it, she said maybe for Christmas.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2259/afrika-korps

Well I waited and waited for Christmas to arrive and my mom surpassed my expectations. Not only did I get Afrika Korps, but I got D-Day, Battle of the Bulge, Stalingrad and Waterloo.

So at ten years old I was hooked. In June the following year for my birthday I got PanzerBlitz/PanzerLeader, Luftwaffe and The Russian Campaign. For Christmas I got The Rise and Decline of the Third Reich, Battle for Germany, Tobruck and Sniper.

I believe it was the next summer I saw the famous box of all, I only had ten bucks and there it was, the ultimate game ever it was called Squad Leader! But alas it was $12.00! I had wait a whole month to get it! I also discovered The General and that there were others like me!

Long story short all that led to ASL and over 500 board games later. Thanks mom!

My first computer game was Steel Panthers which I found in 1996 and it was like playing ASL on the computer. I picked up a few other SSI titles but it was in 1998 and a company called TalonSoft where I discovered both EastFront and The Operational Art of War. It was TOAW that hit that sweet spot.

I have over 50 pc war games and the two I always go back to are Steel Panthers and TOAW.

I also got into Aide de Camp and Cyberboard and played many folks with those board war game systems. But now only use VASSAL and VASL.

Thanks to my mum!

[King_Solomon]

Over 500 games!?! I cannot begin to imagine. Are there any WWI games you (or anyone) would recommend outside of Paths of Glory?