Matrix Games Forums

Nah, let’s continue.

Japanese carriers
21 lost
11 by a/c
9 by sub
1 combination (crippled by aircraft, sunk by enemy action)

Total carriers lost 41
18 by a/c
17 by subs
3 combined (crippled by a/c, sunk by enemy action)
2 by surface ships
1 by accident

Simplify 40 carriers lost in action
21 by a/c (sunk or crippled to be sunk by enemy)
17 by subs
2 by surface action

42.5%
52.5%
5.0%

First what comes to mind is that submarines are far more effective than just damaging carriers, they were deadly.
Also stats differ greatly depending on what force and theatre you examine.

Are we still talking about anomalies?

Yes, two allied carriers were sunk by surface ships. One by stupidity of command and the other by a mistaken assumption. A 95% chance of a deviation from the norm is an anomaly, as defined as "a deviation from the common rule".

IMO it is arbitrary to exclude wrong command decisions as a valid reason to get sunk.

What level of commands are we talking about. How exactly do we model certain errors within the confines of the simulation?
Let's take the Glorious
1. No altering of course - how do you model that in a weekly, I go you go, game turn?
2. No aircraft on Ready Alert - again how do you model that in a weekly ...
3. No combat air patrol - Once again how ...
4. No one in the crows nest - no comment needed
I suggest, that in a strategic level IGYG game, you can only model such behavior with probability and statistics. How probable is it that all those errors or similar ones, would occur to the average Fast Carrier Task Force? How often did it happen in reality? I've actually given a 4 times greater chance than the historical record would warrant. You have a 20% chance of damaging or sinking a carrier with a surface attack in the Naval Mod.

I have not altered the original parameters for subs. They are what the developer designed.

Well that 5% is total.
For RN losses in the Atlantic it is 16.7%, USN in the Pacific 8.3%

Of course there are a lot more factors that come into play.
Stupidity or bad luck being factors, just like fueling or arming a/c, poor discipline, poor design etc.
Lessons learned, tactics, drills and designs changed.

I’ll lay it to rest, it is your mod you do whatever you like with it.

ORIGINAL: CaesarAug

A curious thing... I cannot use the game editor to open the Naval War campaign. An error comes up about not finding the convoy.txt file. Yet there is a convoy.txt file... Any thoughts about how I can open the Naval War campaign? Thanks!

A curious thing... I cannot use the game editor to open the Naval War campaign. An error comes up about not finding the convoy.txt file. Yet there is a convoy.txt file... Any thoughts about how I can open the Naval War campaign? Thanks!

Again, any way to edit the mod so I can see what attributes you have given the ships? Thanks.

Chuck

They did something to the Community Mods so you can't edit them.

I can send you my files.

Is Naval Mod also fixed in 1.6.1 so you can use AVL as Axis?

ORIGINAL: CaesarAug

A curious thing... I cannot use the game editor to open the Naval War campaign. An error comes up about not finding the convoy.txt file. Yet there is a convoy.txt file... Any thoughts about how I can open the Naval War campaign? Thanks!

Copy and past the files into the Documents\My Games\Strategic Command WWII - World at War\Campaigns folder. You can edit it there and then copy them back into the community mods folder

Going to be taking a look at the research increases.

In February of 1942 (as part of the 1939 scenario), I got into a carrier battle with the Japanese (4 on 4). Research was fairly even with them having an edge in fighter research. Was able to take out 2 carrier groups, but I lost 3. Come 1943 and I get into another big carrier battle- 3 Japanese CV forces against 7 US and British. Naval Weaponry and Fighter research were even. 2 Naval, 3 Fighter.

Five of the US CV groups were set to Naval Tactical, the other 2 were set to CAP.
With FIVE, that right, 5 attacks on ONE Japanese CV task force starting with a strength of 8/8, (the other 2 were at a strength of 10/10) I do ONE point of ship damage and 3 points of aircraft on the target and additional five aircraft points on the CV interceptors from another group, wile losing EIGHTEEN aircraft points. In their counterattack, I lose THREE CV task forces

Hmmm, something's out of kilter here.

Sure sounds like it, but I don't have the faintest idea what it could be. I want to emphasize that I have changed very few aspects of the naval game and those changes have been exactly the same for both sides. If the Allies got a 6mp zone of control the Axis got a 6mp zone of control as well. If an Axis Fast Carrier Task Force got a 70% evasion rating, so did the Allies. All of the changes are exactly the same for both sides as far as I am aware.

In my play testing I did not have the problems some are describing. My only thoughts are that the newer versions have hard coded something I can't see. I can easily nerf the Axis evasion ratings and make them uneven compared to the Allies. Do you think that would be the solution? If so I can do it and you can test it out.

I just wanted to add that I really like many of the aspects of the naval mod, especially the fact that subs are a bit easier to defend & destroy and carrier TF's are more powerful. Also the units have different strengths which is how it should be, IMO.
I do have a few questions:
1) Is it possible to attack TF's in port by the navy or only by aircraft & land units.
2) What exactly in this mod does Zone of Control effect as regards the Navy? ( It seems that I cannot attack within this zone)
3) How is it best to attack Carrier TF? It doesn't seem that subs can attack at all. Again, does it have to do with Zone of Control?
4) Is it possible to edit the game so that it can't rebuild loss units at a reduced cost and over fewer months? (I like the idea of rebuilding but I think the cost should be more(perhaps half) & take longer to refit.)
Thanks for all the effort that was put into making the naval mod.[;)]

I thought that I would resubmit this because it seems to have been lost in between other comments. No reply has been made. Any thoughts?

Hope this is okay to piggyback onto this thread. I've had a search round for answers and cant seem to find what I'm looking for, so apologies in advance if this is repeating issues that are answered elsewhere.

I am trying to start an AI campaign using the Naval War Mod and the Iron Cross Mod 4.6.

I am loading it up from the community pack that is on the start menu. A couple of things that I cant seem to sort out:

1.I cant seem to get the Soviet counters to look like the Iron Cross Mod. I've seen there seems to be issues and I should be perhaps loading up some info from another folder, just cant quite figure out which one.
2. At the start of each turn it plays the music of the Naval Mod in the intro and it seems to go on for ever, is there a way to turn this off?

Whilst playing the vanilla game and using the Iron Cross mod, the Soviet counters are the revised version, so they are there somewhere, it is only using the naval mod that they go back to the original version

TIA for any pointers.

That is a known glitch for the Russian counters; so far has not been remedied in any patches.

Ahh right, thanks for the info. At least I know I'm not going mad!

2. At the start of each turn it plays the music of the Naval Mod in the intro and it seems to go on for ever, is there a way to turn this off?

The music should only play once a game, so I don't know why yours keeps coming back. You have to go into the scripts to eliminate it. Sorry about the Rule the Waves length. I just got carried away. You can edit it using a number of free software apps that can handle .ogg files.

Hello. The idea for naval war mod seems good. And I was excited to play it. However after trying pbem using it (I get bored playing AI), I really do not like the fact that many ships cannot be reinforced to 10. This includes newly built ships as well as ships that you start the game with. I'm using "ships" but I realize the game intends these to be "task forces".

I'm not very experienced with the game but there seems to be some variability in this. For example some ships when built will show up with 10 strength then when damaged and returned to a 10+ port they can only be repaired back to 6 for example. It's really annoying to have a bunch of ships floating around at 6 strength.

Can there be a version of this mod that allows all ships to have the same "10" strength to make them a bit more survivable and useful than the very weak 6 strength ships?

The 6 strength ships are by design and represent TF made up of screening forces. These are a bunch of DD, DE and CLs,(which in WW2 were sunk by the hundreds...yes hundreds: 197 for the US alone. Yet sunk Capital ships they are few and far between. 2CV, 2BB, 5CA, 7CL.

You should note how fast and cheap they are to bring them to life again. These are the pawns of WW2 naval strategy. When any escort or screening TF is "destroyed" what that means is that enough ships in that TF were put out of commission that the TF is useless for combat and must go back to the main base for refit and replacements, quite fast and quite inexpensive.

Hey, enjoying the naval mod. I especially like the spotting dynamic, which seems much more realistic. I'm just wondering how many others are running into "damage avoided" when playing the AI. I know it sounds paranoid, and I'm sure there's no coding issue, but wow! does the Axis AI avoid getting damaged by my attacks. Way more than sixty percent of the time. As for attacks on me, As of the middle of 1940 (especially in the Med), I have yet to see more than one of my TF avoid damage. It's becoming a little weird. Just wondering if it's bad luck or something else. Anyone?

I think this is the first time I've heard of this one. If anyone else is having the same problems, please let me know.

I know a lot of you fantasize about your Yamato sliding up to the Enterprise and blowing it to hell. It should not be happening. I did too, but it got kind of old, having all these ships appear out of nowhere, blowing you to hell and then disappearing.

Rexor: I have done nothing to the coding (wouldn't if I could, which I can't) and as far as I know it's a straight 60%. What units are you attacking with and how in the heck did you get close to a CV in the first place? That only happened twice in the whole war so I've set up the mod to reflect reality. To be blunt, If you are spending your time trying to track down CV Task Forces with your BB Task Forces I suggest you stop wasting your time. It sounds like the 60% is doing the job. I should have set it to 90%. By my count, there were 227 carriers involved in the war from all nations. 2 sunk by naval gunfire out of 227 in close enough to 1% for me. So in reality, I should set the avoidance to 99%

Is the AI catching your CV Task Forces and getting hits? That shouldn't be happening.

Not CVs. The CV thing is working fine, I believe. I'm playing the Allies in the 1939 campaign. LOTS of action in the Med and the North Sea in 1940. In the Med, storms prevented me from using my two fast carrier groups for months, so they sat it out. I tried as best I could to maneuver my strike forces and covering forces (I had two of each) to get the Italian BBs, but they got "evaded damage" every time. When the Italians attacked, they managed to find a way around my screens and then blew my heavy units to bits. I had to send my strikes and covers to port and was left only with screens, which fared badly against the heavy Italian units.

My point isn't that the naval mod is nerfed; it's just that the "evade damage", so far at least, has wildly favored the AI. The Royal Navy is in dire straights right now. I'll concede that it could be unfortunate die rolls, luck is always a factor. I just wanted to check in about it.

In the North Sea, same thing but not as bad. Clear weather allowed me to use my carrier group, but their bombers got "evaded damage" against their targets more than half the time. The Germans used their heavies and landed damage every time.

In other words, I wish my units evaded damage as often as the enemy's, but I can't seem to make that happen. I'll keep at it and see if my luck changes!

EDIT: My carriers have been safe from surface attacks so far, although enemy subs have done some damage to them. But my CV bombers keep getting "evaded damage" when they attack enemy ships. I have them on bombers mode.