Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

ORIGINAL: jmlima
This is actually an interesting point. Should that folder have any scenarios? Because I just did a new install and patch and that folder now has got no scenarios whatsoever. The game is searching and using the scenario folders inside the game installation folder, not any other scenario folder.

That folder's supposed to be empty after installation, and to be used for your own/downloaded scenarios. Because most users don't have write permissions to the "Program Files" folder where the game is installed by default. And so you won't lose your custom scenarios when uninstalling the game.

The original release (4.0.0.11) saved the scenario suite there. They will still be there, unless one has done something screwy. Note that you have to have TOAW IV installed before installing the update.

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

...
... Note that you have to have TOAW IV installed before installing the update.

Which was obviously done.

ORIGINAL: Shadrach
You can even see it in the titles from Bob's screenshots. "¬:\Users\Public" and "?ampleVideos". So it's not only on my system.

Weird...which version of windows are you using?

ORIGINAL: jmlima

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

...
... Note that you have to have TOAW IV installed before installing the update.

Which was obviously done.

No. It's not obvious at all, if you don't have any scenarios in the Documents path.

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: jmlima

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

...
... Note that you have to have TOAW IV installed before installing the update.

Which was obviously done.

No. It's not obvious at all, if you don't have any scenarios in the Documents path.

If it should then that's my problem (as a consumer I have a defective product) and Matrix's problem (as the software originator Matrix produced a flawed product), since a new install did not create any scenarios in that location.

Since we both know the truth is in the middle, if you want to help solve the problem, great, if you don't then also fine, just say it and I'll raise a support ticket.

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
The original release (4.0.0.11) saved the scenario suite there. They will still be there, unless one has done something screwy. Note that you have to have TOAW IV installed before installing the update.

That's not actually true. If a user does a clean install, with an empty Documents folder, using first the main v4.1.0.20 installer then patching with v4.1.0.40, the Documents folders will be empty. That's just what I did. There were no scenarios in those folders, apart from the ones I've downloaded who are not part of the default install.

I think the problem with BMPs and DOCs might relate to this. If a user has patched the game all the way from the original v4.0.0.11 then the scenarios, including BMPs and DOCs, will still be in Documents and will be found. But users are NOT required to install from the original, as the only files available are the base .20 install (800MB) and the .40 patch (150MB).

Anyway that's a different problem from what's being discussed here (Editor saving units) and should probably get its own thread.

@76mm: I'm on Windows10. But Bob is on Windows7 and still has the weird titles.

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

That's not actually true. If a user does a clean install, with an empty Documents folder, using first the main v4.1.0.20 installer then patching with v4.1.0.40, the Documents folders will be empty. That's just what I did. There were no scenarios in those folders, apart from the ones I've downloaded who are not part of the default install.

Alright. Then don't do that. Uninstall and then reinstall 4.0.0.11, then install the patch. Let's see what happens.

@76mm: I'm on Windows10. But Bob is on Windows7 and still has the weird titles.

Huh?

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
Alright. Then don't do that. Uninstall and then reinstall 4.0.0.11, then install the patch. Let's see what happens.

The 4.0.0.11 installer is no longer available. We are supposed to install first the full v4.1.0.20 and then patch v4.1.0.40.
And yes, installing v4.0.0.11 would probably leave the scenarios in the Documents folder, and I'd not even notice the game won't find the BMPs or DOCs. But that's kinda besides the point right?

EDIT: What I *could* do just to test is to install the v4.1.0.20 and patch to .21. That might show if there something wrong in the .40 release.

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

@76mm: I'm on Windows10. But Bob is on Windows7 and still has the weird titles.

Huh?

You are on Windows 7 right? That's what it looks like at least.

And by "weird titles" -- have a look at the titles for those save dialogs you show above.



Could you explain those?

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

The 4.0.0.11 installer is no longer available.

It should have been provided when you bought the game.

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
It should have been provided when you bought the game.

Sure but I don't have it any more. As I downloaded the "TheOperationalArtofWar4-SetupRelease-v4.1.0.20.exe" released EDIT: Nov 15, 2017 which is the full game so why have the old installer lying around [:)]

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
It should have been provided when you bought the game.

Sure but I don't have it any more. As I downloaded the "TheOperationalArtofWar4-SetupRelease-v4.1.0.20.exe" released EDIT: Nov 15, 2017 which is the full game so why have the old installer lying around [:)]

I'm not the Matrix expert, but I think there is a way to get another copy if you provide some info to the help people.

There is also the possibility of just copying the scenario suite from the Steam folder to the ...Documents\Matrix Games\The Operational Art of War\ folder. (And maybe do the same with the Graphics Override folder).

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
There is also the possibility of just copying the scenario suite from the Steam folder to the ...Documents\Matrix Games\The Operational Art of War\ folder. (And maybe do the same with the Graphics Override folder).

Yep, that would be a *workaround*. But the point of this exercise is to show the game does not behave as it should. I really have no major issue with not seeing the BMPs or being able to open DOCs directly, it's just a minor annoyance. But it should be fixed if the game does not look in the correct folder for these files.

AS to a test I just did:
1. Installed full v4.1.0.20. The game shows BMPs and DOCs.
2. Patched to v4.1.0.21. The game still shows BMPs and DOCs.
3. Patched to v4.1.0.40. The game stops showing BMPs and DOCs.

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
There is also the possibility of just copying the scenario suite from the Steam folder to the ...Documents\Matrix Games\The Operational Art of War\ folder. (And maybe do the same with the Graphics Override folder).

Yep, that would be a *workaround*. But the point of this exercise is to show the game does not behave as it should. I really have no major issue with not seeing the BMPs or being able to open DOCs directly, it's just a minor annoyance. But it should be fixed if the game does not look in the correct folder for these files.

AS to a test I just did:
1. Installed full v4.1.0.20. The game shows BMPs and DOCs.
2. Patched to v4.1.0.21. The game still shows BMPs and DOCs.
3. Patched to v4.1.0.40. The game stops showing BMPs and DOCs.

It would be useful to know if it actually is a valid workaround.

I told Ralph the build should put the scenario suite in all three paths, but he didn't listen.

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
It would be useful to know if it actually is a valid workaround.

I told Ralph the build should put the scenario suite in all three paths, but he didn't listen.

Well that I can easily test. Hang on.

Not sure it's a good idea to just duplicate the scenarios in the installer. They take up a bit of space (350MB) and not everyone wants that in their Documents folder.
In the old 4.0.0.11 installer it plopped the scenarios in the Documents, and this caused a lot of confusion. AFAIK that's why he decided to keep Documents clean and reserved for User scenarios and place all the scenarios in the Program directory, which IMO is the best way.

COPYING all files from
f:\Games\The Operational Art of War IV\Scenarios
to
c:\Users\Stian\Documents\My Games\The Operational Art of War IV\Scenarios

Results in the following:



I cannot select every second line. But at least the BMP and DOC shows [;)]
I thought the scenarios in Documents would OVERRIDE the ones in Programs if they have the same name? Not just list them twice?

MOVING all the files results in:



So BMPs and DOCs work if all scenarios are in the Documents. If in both the scen list bugs out.

What does that do for the Unit files, though?

Nothing at all [:D]

You're a mod right? If you want to, move all the BMP/DOC discussion into its own thread. Or I could start a new one maybe. Either way I will rest my case on this for the moment [8D]

Thanks for all of your hard work and testing. These types of issues are (to me) some of the biggest hurdles to new players.

For me (an experienced II / ACOW player) the whole "do it yourself" routines for IV are the biggest stumbling blocks before total enjoyment.

I have, through bitter experience, learned how to make the game "work" ...
and that should not be so, esp. for new players / new buyers.

If TOAW is to survive, it must overcome these types of hurdles.
For now, it abides only due to the Herculean efforts of a very few dedicated players.

One only has to take a glimpse at a recent new users' recent post in "general" discussion,
about how to install a scenario / grafx, which was met with not an easy explanation,
but with almost outright derision.

That type of response to an honest question is very disheartening.

For me, I will continue to promote the game, but at this point, with all the rigamarole that seems to be required just to make it work, I too am almost ready to throw in the towel.

Let's hope that TOAW V will solve all our issues.

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith
One only has to take a glimpse at a recent new users' recent post in "general" discussion,
about how to install a scenario / grafx, which was met with not an easy explanation,
but with almost outright derision.

That type of response to an honest question is very disheartening.

Yes I saw that one too. It would have helped if the poster had mentioned the game. They are new to forums I guess. But reading their post only someone who was familiar with TOAW would understand that was the game they were talking about. As was said in a well known movie, "What we've got here is failure to communicate." [;)]

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith

...
One only has to take a glimpse at a recent new users' recent post in "general" discussion, about how to install a scenario / grafx, which was met with not an easy explanation, but with almost outright derision.
...
For me, I will continue to promote the game, but at this point, with all the rigamarole that seems to be required just to make it work, I too am almost ready to throw in the towel.
...

Welcome to the playtest forum.

Oh, wait.