Matrix Games Forums

How about just slightly higher suppression value for the grenades?

That's not a bad idea at all.

Originally posted by Billy:
Changing grenade weaopn class from sec. inf. to prime seems to produce a more realistic effect

Originally posted by Billy:
Changing grenade weaopn class from sec. inf. to prime seems to produce a more realistic effect

No !!! Nooo !!!

Bad ! Bad ! Very much BAD BAD !!!

This will make the squad throw 1 grenade per men, not one single grenade ... this is a bit unrealistic, isn't it?

And the ammo given to the squad represents all grenades carried, but this way only one "shot" will be deducted (as if only one man was throwing), so you would have to "turn" down" the ammo value .. but than the grenades will be one-way weapons .. fire once, be outta ammo !!

Arralen

Should probably be somewhere inbetween having only one grenade per turn and all the men of the squad throwing grenades. Close range infantry combat should be a violent affair.

Having only one man of the infantry squad throwing one single grenade during a whole turn is to go away from the real thing as well. Hey soldier, there's an enemy in that trench! You go throw one single grenade. Then you sit and wait three minutes before you throw the next if they don't die or get wounded on the first. Remember to not waste more grenades than one every three minutes.

Make it a primary weapon while reducing its effiency to simulate not all the men throwing the grenades and divide the number of grenades carried by the squad with the number of men supposed to throw to give a realistic ammo count. Leave it as it is and increase efficiency to simulate more than one grenade throwed and reduce the ammo count similar to the example above. No OOB expert, but logically that would do the trick

Could be too much work for little gain.. but an idea anyway..

[This message has been edited by Fredde (edited November 24, 2000).]

Originally posted by Fredde:
Having only one man of the infantry squad throwing one single grenade during a whole turn is to go away from the real thing as well.

It's not 1 gren/turn, it's 1 gren/shot.

Infantry normally gets 5..6 shots per turn, so you can throw 5..6 grenades in 3 minutes, or 1 every 30 seconds ... pretty violent when on the receiving end, isn't it?

Don't think we'll change this values !

Arralen

Originally posted by Fredde:
Just a little impression i have.. shouldn't hand grenades be more powerful than they are against infantry? Right now they seldom cause any casualties at all even at 0 range. When you are very close, grenades should be lethal. Taking out entrenched infantry, house to house fighting in cities etc etc.. situations where hand grenades should be invaluable but are not are numerous.

Not all grenades are there to cause casualties via shrapnel. The US issued both the pineapple style fragmentation grenade, and a concussion grenade that was more of a flash-bang type, possibly lethal if tossed into a closed space like a bunker where the overpressure will cause you to bleed from your ears, but in the open it does nothing more than what in the game is suppression.

Years ago I saw a demonstration of the m79, and it was very unimpressive, when the marine was asked why it gave such a wimpy bang, he mentioned that movie grenades are simulated with what they would use for 105mm artillery simulators.

Now how about fixing the sturmtiger so that it is a heck of a lot more inaccurate, as it is now you can use it to shoot a moving vehicles, where everything I have ever read about it said that it was doing good to hit a house at the end of a street.
thanks, John.

While I do agree that grenades *seem* a bit wimpy in game terms against troops in the open - it's actually fairly realistic. By the time your unit gets to the grenade throwing, it's already gone through some rifle shooting (primary weapon). This means that the enemy unit is likely in "pinned" status, ie: grabbing some cover.

Since hand grenades have no penetration power to speak of, the enemy's cover-grabbing means that your pineapples are unlikely to do much.
Increasing the suppression value a bit might be a reasonable idea because no one likes to stick bodily parts into the air when grenades are going off and they are great for shock value...but kills are not very likely. Frankly, I often turn off grenades for fights vs. infantry ..save them for the vehicles.

Now...if there were some way to increase their damage effects against troops in buildings, that would be EXCELLENT. Off the top, though, I can't imagine how to do it.

Oh...and as for effectiveness against entrenchments - it's not as good as one might think since grenade sumps (a deep pit in your foxhole; every few feet in trenches) became doctrine after WWI. For those unfamiliar, only in the movies does a grenade explode on impact...those fuses are not all THAT accurate and most of us who've tossed them would rather not trust some low-wage laborer to have set it for *exactly* five seconds vice 4.. . So very often, the grenade lands and you've got a chance to kick it into a sump. You also build (assuming you have time) your foxhole/trench with the bottom sloping toward the sump so that the grenade will (hopefully) roll into it. Taken as a whole, these measures limit the usefullness of grenades as killers against entrenched enemies...although when one comes sailing in, it does tend to focus the mind wonderfully on IT vice the enemy....

Originally posted by Arralen in response to suggestion to change grenades from sec-weapon to inf primary:
No !!! Nooo !!!

Bad ! Bad ! Very much BAD BAD !!!

This will make the squad throw 1 grenade per men, not one single grenade ... this is a bit unrealistic, isn't it?

<SNIP>

Arralen

I thought this (1 grenade per man) would only occur if the weapon was placed in slot one???

Have to check it now won't I.

Where (on the web) are the updated OOBs placed?

Originally posted by BillSeurer:
Where (on the web) are the updated OOBs placed?

See arralens post "new german oob beta test'
link is there

link http://arralens.purespace.de/spwawoob/

weapons
The weapon class makes the difference - "primary inf weapons" are fired by each man, "secondary" only once.
At least that's what I was told by the Matrix Guys ... maybe you better check it yourself .. there are some things in the game that do not behave as expected

Arralen

[This message has been edited by Arralen (edited December 02, 2000).]

New OOB available (v4.4.0.2)

link http://arralens.purespace.de/spwawoob/

Arralen

Reading this topic got me curious to grenade capabilitys and came across this in my search that some of you may find a intresting read the US Army Field Manual No.3-23.30 Grenades and pyrotechnic signals. http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/3-23.30/toc.htm

About grenades

My use of grenades in Finnish coastal artillery was not wery extensive(2 training sessions) but when thinking a hex of 50 meters and throwing a grenade in to a pit of 1*1 m from 20 metres is not wery easy and if it gets there, there should be only one guy in the receiving end and so the effects can not be that tremendous. Also you can not stand up and carefully aim your throw cause you are ded before you can throw. so in reality you are throwing it from bad position and with bad vision of target and you are not an NBA player.