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ORIGINAL: bomccarthy

ORIGINAL: loki100

I've always (lazily) assumed that the Coastal assets you get are only a portion of what the Allies had? I really should double check as it may be the low replacements reflects other demands - or that these were complicated aircraft and probably diverted a lot of scarce resources.

I'm certain the multi-engine squadrons in the game represent most everything employed by Coastal Command/Coastal Air Force/USN in Western Europe; however, the game doesn't have the FAA squadrons based in the north (Wildcats, Hellcats, and even some Corsairs), although these were relatively few compared to the RAF fighter forces.

ORIGINAL: loki100

I'm pretty sure the range of naval guns is as before. I do think I have one (or two?) more TF, but I've not kept any old saves to check against. But in an AI test, I ended up with 7 in the UK and still had 5 in the Med. Its a while since I played WiTW but I recall having 10 before (this was for Feb 44 or so).

This may reflect adding extra allied naval assets, what it does do is make me a bit less cautious once attrition goes over 30% and it seems to make it easier to both prep for further landings and have a lot of artillery just floating around.

I always checked the composition of the fire support task groups attached to the task forces prior to committing them to an invasion - you can see the number and size of the guns in the task group. In the earlier versions of the scenarios, task groups with guns larger than 8" didn't arrive until early 1944 (representing the battleships Texas, Arkansas, and Nevada, as well as the RN monitors, I assume).

In a northern France invasion, I typically used those TFs with smaller guns as the "assault group", with TFs possessing 14" and greater guns as "invasion fire support"; I also used the big gun TFs to support land attacks against the Channel ports.

Heres a terrible confession, I've been playing this game since release, I guess I sort of know what I'm doing (ahem) and I never realised the different TFs were configured to different specifications. I just assumed they were interchangeable. Well now I have more, the really big ones will indeed have a very special role in reducing all the likely fortresses in N France.

re Coastal Command - I think that reinforces a long held view that the game is better for a house rule not to move them out of the UK in that case. They should have as much a role in U-Boat VP gain/loss as the strategic efforts?

ORIGINAL: John B.

Thanks for the AAR!

glad you are enjoying it, as above had forgotten (too much WiTE2 testing) just how good WiTW is (esp PBEM)

ORIGINAL: GloriousRuse

A German Interlude: As Italy Betrays Me (End of T6)
....

Hope that readers find this useful. I always find AARs from both sides more informative - even if the posts aren't turn and turn about (as I did with Narwhal for the AGEOD classics).

I'm constantly trying out new ideas (& have a bad habit of changing my mind half way through). So whether my choices are good is debateable (and whether in the longer term they pay off is another question).

I agree that allied recon is dire, especially over the Reich. I could do better in France/Belgium but I'm saving the tactical recon for 1944 when I really want to make sure that certain German formations get their due attention. So you have to treat any bombing result with due caution.

So to the bombing war - with BC I don't think you have any choice but to reduce the Ruhr to rubble (unless you ahistorically switch to day raids), the main thing that slows this is damage (flak and fighter caused) and the axis player doesn't really see that. Other than that, I think I maybe trying to be too clever with 8 AAF and I certainly (see next post) need to pay more attention to the U-Boats. I've now got better fighter cover which helps.

Italy, going in on the Basilicata-Calabria border was an experiment, I tried it in an vs AI game and it worked out ok (you get blocked at the narrow exit point but the AI will block any initial landing). Not sure about it, its not really got me far strategically (though I will be well placed to move north when the front shifts) and it didn't get me any of the German mobile stuff from Sicily (which an invasion lower down might have). It also cost me a lot of effort to keep open the sealanes. So at the moment file it with that classic Scots legal judgement 'not proven' - certainly not sure it would be my gambit of choice.

Turn 7: 14 August 1943

Airforces mostly available, only 68 groups being rested. The Stirling group amongst these so all re-equipped to Lancaster Is – I've had pretty decent usage out of the Stirlings but no point sticking to them.

VP situation a bit frustrating – looks like I need to pay attention to the U-Boats again.



So a few small changes but have sent elements of 8AAF and BC towards the Bremen-Hamburg U-Boats.

In Italy, its a mix of transport nets and direct attacks on a couple of clear hexes with German armoured formations in them (HG managed to pull back).

BC's raids on the Ruhr yielded decent results as did 2 tactical air back at Paris (vehicles and railyards).

The B-24s/Liberators shifted to the Pzr IV factories at Plauen and significant damage was reported. The main 8 AAF raid in the Hannover region reported a lot of useful damage and the Bremen raid (B-26 with their short range pay load) went well enough (not sure if it was Bremen being repaired that cost me all that VP)



In Italy Strat Air hit the railyards around Rome and the rail usage to the south. Both reported a lot of damage. Tactical Air knocked out some more Pzrs but nothing like the damage of last turn.

The good thing is several key hexes for the Germans are significantly interdicted – will cost them to resupply at the very least.



First bit of ground recon around Rome suggests that the Germans are fully committed to the south.



Anyway, as mentioned Hermann's finest got out but 2 German brigades remained in clear terrain. So after bombing them, I attacked – felt it would have been rude not to. Judging by the cv collapse they were very short of ammo (which they should have been due to my interdiction).



Edit: this is a good eg of the oddity of how interdiction air damage is shown if a land battle later takes place in the hex. At first sight I have no air commitment (no GS to hand) but a lot of the damage is coded to 'air' - that was the unit bombing carried out in the airphase. It took me a while to work out where these air losses were coming from in this type of instance.

Even better, they had the brilliant idea of retreating up a mountain (their northern route being blocked). 6 Armoured is not going to hold that pocket – not least there is a fresh Pzr division beneath the HG counter. But this is a battle I'm happy to fight.



Around Messina, looks like a PzrGr division. Something for 7 Army to deal with while its waiting to move on.



Random image of the week: An Italian family take ownership of their very own Sherman Tank:

Random picture of the week – all those bombs being dropped off Taranto are making fishing very easy – thus my brave British soldiers are getting regular deliveries of fresh Tuna:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/3517/EltNgQ.jpg

On a lucky day, you may even find an iron whale stranded on the beach:


Fine AAR!

wish I'd found that image .. [8D]

presume it was hit in the Wadden Zee or somewhere similar? Hence on a sand bank at low water.

T8 – 21 August 1943

Back to negative VP, mainly due to non-US losses.



Seems that Canadian tanks don't fight well on a mountain top, but 6 Arm almost held. Could have done without those losses, even if it is no real surprise.



Good news is lots of planes available – only 53 squardrons being rested.

Also the converted FB-F/FB formations start to return which will give a nice boost to my airpower.

Anyway, had a rethink about my approach.

Northern Europe, BC is now in 3 blocks. The majority (60%) stick to the Ruhr but have reinforced the night raids over Bremen and gone back to picking on isolated cities (Bielefeld this turn).

8 AAF I've turned around my usual approach. A well escorted 500+ raid with the B-17s is going for the U-Boats (and no doubt a big fight), the B24s over Berlin and the B26s join in the destruction of the Ruhr (but targetted just at Hagen).

2 Tactical Air hits the Reich for the first time – the isolated (in terms of fighters – I hope) town of Saarbruecken.

Mostly this is more VP focussed than I have been recently but still contains AFV and truck production.



Italy is also swapped around. Strategic Air is now doing its locust act on the Italian communications net (and the Mosquito FB carry on running up rail interdiction). Letting most of Tactical Air rest but its doing interdiction attack on one key transport hex and unit attacks on the Pzrs that are in clear terrain. Naval patrol is designed to cut off Messina and Reggio-Calabria. Malta air is running an AS over the suspected German bomber concentrations around Foggia.



Outcomes.

BC at the Ruhr was decent, elsewhere probably a waste of time. The Saarbrucken raid reported heavy damage.

The B-24s reported some damage in Berlin (certainly better than BC managed). The B-26s left Hagen in ruins (at least that is what they claim).

The main B-17 raid reported good results and relatively low losses to the German fighters.



Malta Air's intervention triggered some fighter battles with fairly even losses. Strategic air reported a lot of damage to the railyards around Rome and Naples.

Tactical Air's ground attacks paid off with a lot more knocked out German tanks.



On the ground, the 2 exposed German brigades were routed, and this time I occupied the hex in force – though I doubt that the Germans will attack again.

Messina was stormed with no messing about – half the US army plus plenty of naval guns. Also allocated all the British heavy artillery to II Corps – concentrated this represents a lot of useful firepower.



Less successful at Tortoli. French moving up to attack Bastia, possibly next turn – though that is not isolated. And I'm in no particular hurry here.



Situation in Italy. Paras are now pulled off the line and preparing for the next phase. Rail repair unit going south towards Reggio-Calabria, then I can release the TF keeping the temp ports in use. All the others are doing useful things now.

At a guess it will be 3-4 weeks before the next phase, so any action will be clearing up the islands and perhaps persecuting that stack of Pzrs out in the clear terrain.

But it may be more efficient to let most of my tactical air rest – they are going to be busy soon enough.



Truck situation by end of the turn, the Germans have lost 9,000. Sticking to my guess they produce at most 600 per turn then that is most of their spare stock gone (again its a guess but they start with about 3000 over need – but need alters depending on how well their logistics are functioning).

On my side I've lost 7,000 trucks (fairly meaningless as while I can have local shortages its not really a sensible indicator), 37 troop ships (ok, if a wee bit high) and 218 cargo ships

Its impossible to work out how much truck production I've removed. In part as my recon is not exactly reliable and in part as a factory under 50% damage can function fully (or not at all). Heres what I see (only for factories of #5 or more), so lets say for the sake of a rough number I've knocked out about 30% of their production (so they are generating around 400-450 per turn).



And here's the claimed end of term U-Boat position.

I admit the idea came before the image.
In fact its a WW1 sub stranded near Boulogne: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SM_UC-61

right, so it grounded and then split up?

The urge to hit parts of the mainland with your submarine clearly persists to the current day:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-11605365

[;)]

T9: 28 August 1943

So lets start with the VP screen (as it much happier reading for me this turn).

Swapping my bombing plans around paid off, clearly I guessed right about where the U-boats were being produced.



Again most of the airforce available with only 65 formations being rested, but 35 of those from Tactical Air. Good thing is those tempting Pzrs have moved off the front line – I know where they are but want to save my bombers for missions over the next few turns.

Nice steady stream of convered FB coming back to the map. These are mostly going to get some late summer Italian sun.

So the Italian missions are mostly about the transition to the next phase – ports and railyards, the Mosquito FB carry on with rail interdiction but switch to the lines north of Rome.

In N Europe, bit more choice.

8 AAF is in two groups, the B24s are going for the trucks at Brandenburg but the bulk are going to try and wreck the U-Boats so I don't have to pay more attention. To help this BC is going to bomb Luebeck but I've swapped the payload to 14 1,000lb bombs (and added the squadron with the 4,000 lb bombs). I'm also going in relatively low. The locals are advised to wear ear plugs (locals given BC's accuracy being anyone living between Munich and Copenhagn).

The bulk of BC is doing the Ruhr (yawn) with the usual standard loadout (yawn). Main change is a change of payload as I've abandoned the fuel tanks for the Lancasters in favour of more incendiaries.

Another group is going for Cologne, since I want to take out these trucks this raid too includes a few formations just with the large bombs.

Tactical air is off to destroy the Dutch car industry (apologies to my in-laws).



Outcomes. For Bomber Command the main raid was reasonably effective, the Luebeck raid seemed to attract a lot of German fighters but did no noticeable damage (equally my losses were light), the big raid on the Cologne vehicle plant was really very impressive.



8 AAF claims that the Brandenburg factory is in ruins – but also encountered quite a few German fighters. The Hamburg raid was more successful, not least they actually managed to find Luebeck – unlike Bomber Command. Note the fuel all generates VP.

In Italy, despite a fair bit of provocation by my fighters the Luftwaffe skulked on the ground. I suspect they may not just be hiding ...?


The Italians (with some British help) took Tortoli, no attacks on Corsica yet (not least I want to isolate Bastia first). Moving fresh units over to the mainland before any attack on Reggio-Calabria.

However, as noted above the German Pzr/PzrGr formations are all heading north leaving just infantry on the line facing 8 Army. A relatively weak unit securing the western edge attracted my attention.



Any dreams of exploiting to Naples were ended by finding a fresh infantry and a PzrGr division in the hex behind.

So heres an overview of S Italy.




Random image of the week:



Bomber Command has clearly missed the target (by at least 3 seperate countries this time) again.

T10: 4 September 1943

Rather nice to see this. Shift of the bombers to VP related targets has paid off but its time to go back for the things that actually matter. In effect, a summer of steady bombing briefly overwhelms axis repair capacity. All those +6/+8 bombing results start to accumulate to putting a lot of stuff out of action even if total damage is still < 50. Won't last but ...



Only 63 air units resting but frustrating that 18 were from the Med tactical air.

After last turn I've lost interest in VP raiding (as such), so BC is doing 2 things. The Ruhr and Bremen (the raid on Luetzen left me having to rest that group).

One thing worth mentioning here. I've kept the Ruhr mission to 2 days a week, the result is I am keeping the intensity going, so even if a given week is not too impressive the onslaught doesn't slow. Swtich to 3 days and you will start to get low morale formations.

8 AAF has 3 missions. The bulk go for Hannover with HI, trucks and tanks. The B-24s again go long range for Pilzen (trucks) the B-26s for Cologne (see if they can actually hit the vehicle production.

Tactical Air goes for Aachen (HI).

Increasingly 8 AAF is well escorted even if my stock pf P-38s is running out.



So in Italy, struck by indecision. I could launch the second invasion next turn but I've slightly botched my deployment of secondary formations. Also Tactical Air is not really recovering fast enough and I suspect this is going to be another brutal air battle.

So scrapped all my carefully designed orders and went with a basic set of transport attacks. Also altered the Wellington X to 4,000lb bombs to maximise port damage (these really are a slightly underated very flexible plane, good for unit bombing, naval missions and can carry heavy bombs if that is what you want).

Next turn is good weather so not losing out in that respect.

Logic to delay is the assumption I don't lose (& that is unlikely), not least 8 Army is well placed to take full advantage of any weakening of the line holding it in place, then this next phase will end inevitably with the Germans back into southern Abruzzo mountains and around Naples.

In effect, it moves the stalemate north and it doesn't really matter if that bogs down at the end of September or the end of October. What does matter is how many losses I can inflict and for that I need my airpower. I'd also like to take Reggio Calabria first as that frees up 7 Army.

So in the end its a fair bit of recon and some AS. I'd like to know where the German bombers are – they clearly are not at Foggia.



Outcomes. Nothing impressive by Bomber Command, Tactical Air has wrecked Aachen. 8 AAF reports that the raid on Pilsen was effective, the main raid around Hannover worked (even up against a lot of German fighters) while the Cologne vehicle plant should now be shut down.



Italy is all very odd. Seems like the German bombers have gone north and I am very much in the dark as to where the Panzers are. Have detected a few units but they could be anything.

My limited recon doesn't suggest either Pzrs or bombers are around Rome either.



On the ground, my infantry didn't have enough MP to actually attack Reggio Calabria. Last German unit on Sardinia surrendered and captured Bastia (final use of the defecting Italian formations).

Sets off a small reallocation of some planes to Corsica and Sardinia. Gives much more opportunity to bomb into N Italy and around Rome.

Anyway, after a lot of thinking I was eyeing up an unstacked German infantry division on the west edge of their defensive line at Lauria. I've already damaged one of these last turn and the lure of weakening of another was strong (even if I didn't win).

So it got hit by 3 infantry divisions all well supported (51 Infantry has the British Assault Engineer brigade attached – possibly the most potent support unit in the game). As you can see that gives me a massive Engineering value and flattened the fortifications. 6 Armoured exploited to take the hex.



Just a nice starting point for any break out.

I've also boosted my mobile assets here by converting the tank brigades held back at the Corps level into on map counters.



As an end note, we had a discussion about that attack and why it occured to me as a good idea.

So here's my logic.

1) German infantry are vulnerable and you can't trust the shown CV ratio (in this case it was about 1.5:1).
2) if that had been a PzGr of FJ formation my instinct would be that the CV would shift against me, as its infantry (lower morale, less robust ToE) I assume some slippage my way.
3) the current CV is very dependent on the fortification value any drop in that (and if it happens early in the attack it can be decisive) and the CV follows, so my rough 1.5-1 starts to go over 2-1.
4) numbers matter. So by using 3 full strength divisions (all with attachments) & I got a brigade reserve reaction, I quite simply overwhelm the defenders. This is how you deal with elite brigades even in poor terrain – in effect you will often win essentially by having overwhelming numbers.
5) Going back to the fortifications, I had the British assault engineer brigade present. I like to assign this to one infantry division as a fortress buster, I think this pays off better than spreading it around.
6) I took 2 gambles. First there was no air interdiction, though I knew I was going to get GS – as you can see this very usefully disrupted most of the artillery present (and disrupted elements don't fight and air disruption happens before any ground combat) So by the time I closed almost all their artillery and AA/AT was out of action.
7) The other was out of my control. There was a PzGr division lurking behind the lines – if this had reacted I would have lost. But I didn't really care, even in a defeat, I would removed most of the fortifications (due to the engineers) and the PzrGr formation might have got battered.

The moral of this story? – don't trust CV completely. If your defensive CV is heavily reliant on fortifications then there is a risk these can be removed, leaving you very exposed. Also if you outnumber your target (say 3 divisions vs 1 brigade), you have a much better chance than it appears as early disruptions due to air and artillery can start to shift the odds in your favour.

T11 – 11 September 1943

VP screen. Not going to last but the sustained hits on VP targets (esp by BC) start to overwhelm any capacity to repair. The Germans simply don't have the admin points for this.



Only 52 formations being rested. Usefully almost all the Med Tactical Air are ready. Running into a few shortages but the second generation stuff comes on line in October so can often just about limp along.

Anyway, after last turns panic, I have as much tactical air as I am going to have in Italy so no excuses – just the enduring panic that large parts of the Axis armed forces have disappeared.

So up around Rome am going for the railyards and ports, sticking some Spitfires in to see if I can get the Germans to fight. Below that the Mosquitos carry on doing rail interdiction. I've noticed the Italian partisans are doing a very good job cutting the German rails so there is very little flowing to their forces facing 8 Army. Naples is port + railyards (Wellingtons).

Over the landing zone, still going for rail yards (remember this also undermines the associated depot), some defensive interdiction (which will be increased by the paratroop drops) and a fair bit of defensive naval patrols.



NW Europe, BC doing the Ruhr and Bonn. The formations that attacked Leutzen are still out of action due to low morale.

8 AAF, main raid shifts East to Magdeburg, B26s hit the fuel in the northern Ruhr, B24s trucks around Frankfurt. 2 Tactical Air goes for Paris rail and truck production.



Outcomes. Most of the bombing in NW Europe was ok, nothing great but none that I can regard as a waste of time. If true, the raid on Buer was the most successful single operation.

There is an small issue here, Fuel recovers relatively slowly from damage (2 percentage points per turn) compared to most other targets. Also larger (over 6) targets repair more slowly.



In Italy, my fighters found some Germans around Rome, this was confirmed by the various bombing raids but no German fighter cover reported in the South.

Since the core of that set of AD was to generate interdiction, here's the results. Around Frosinome is the rail missions by the Mosquitos (that will cause a few more bottlenecks) while Tactical air does a good job screening the landings. Have reasonable control of the sea lanes.

Still no idea what those German units are.



So a bit more action than recently. Start with Reggio Calabria. Lots of naval guns and the British heavy artillery. They surrendered on a follow up attack. II US now moves up to join 8 Army.




XXX Corps tried a repeat of last turn's trick. This time it was held, but again note the impact on the German fortifications.



And thus starts phase 2 of the Italian campaign. I never feel confident about any naval invasion in this game.



Not paid much attention to overall losses so this maybe a good point for a recap.

Ground losses look good but of course most of the Axis lost are from the Italian surrender.

Not shown but they have lost 14.000 trucks (1,500 this turn). A secret source in OKH has confessed they have built 16,000 since the start of the game but have send 60% (10,000) to equip the Red Army.



Air losses, again the totals are distorted by the Italian numbers.

Looking at the details, the German bomber force is still intact (I've shot down about 70) which does worry me. They've lost around 1,200 day fighters and 200 night fighters.



Gives some idea of my bomber losses. Note the relatively low outright losses for Bomber Command (Lancasters and Halifaxes) compared to the US B17, 24 and 26s. Equally I've lost a lot of P38s but they have done an excellent job protecting my bomber raids.

Of course the other way to look at it is that 8 AAF has generally done a lot of damage and BC much less so.

T12 – 18 September 1943

Ouch, but hard to avoid with an Adriatic landing. The alternative around Salerno doesn't really get me very far as its easy to block with the rough terrain. In theory at least, this gets me a tank battle and to push the front north of Foggia.



Equally painful is 91 air groups grounded using my usual rules. Even worse 41 of these were from Tactical Air so I decided that as a special measure anything over 45 morale can fly from that command. Next turn I have a useful set of converted FB coming back into use.

Much better news, Taranto has revolted and is now an open port (this tends to happen if it is left ungarrisoned), so that means my airpower can ignore the ports and go for the railyards and exposed German units.

Also the axis rail net south of Benevento is a mess due to partisan attacks so I stop my interdiction missions around Rome – for now I have more immediate demands.



So Italy is now all about the fight in the South. I'm putting a lot of naval air into clearing the narrows between Italy and Albania. Each particularly interesting German stack gets its very own 'unit' mission as does that infantry division that XXX Corps attacked last turn. A breakout there, plus Taranto being available will get the front moving – till the next stalemate.

The B-17s are still doing the railyards – as noted the German rail net here is a mess due to my friendly partisans but the depot at Foggia is important (and depot efficiency is tied to the working size of the depot).



NW Europe, not much, Tactical Air back over Belgium, the main B-17 raid goes for Frankfurt, the specialist B-24 for the Tigers at Kassel. Both Bomber Command groups over the Ruhr. Sort of running out of imagination here at the moment.



Outcomes, the specialist BC raid just on Duisberg paid off (for some reason the generic Ruhr attacks have missed this out). Fighter Command managed to catch a few unwary German fighters.

The Kassel raid claims a lot of damage to the Tiger production and the Frankfurt raid took out the Mainz truck production (or at least that is what they claim).



Since the focus in Italy was hitting the Pzr formations, here are the ground losses in the air phase. That is a bit over-stated as it includes losses in the German ground phase (more on that below) but it is some extra tanks gone (and there will be disruptions and damage in addition).



Find the problem with Taranto, some idiot has bombed the port to destruction so I can't unload there – not even a regiment. Also I couldn't flip any German airbase – I'd have moved in an airlanding formation if this had happened.

Even so, XXX Corps (& a lot of naval artillery) breaks out.



That infantry division then got hit twice more as it fell back till it routed. With that 8 Army's armour broke out, the American 1 Arm is rather exposed but it depends on how the Germans respond.

The weakness was I didn't bomb Brindisi as I hoped to take it via Taranto so there is a nasty gap in my naval control. With this in mind I shifted one of the TF to sit off the port to try and generate my own interdiction. I also didn't attack from the beach-head. 6 British Paras are rather vulnerable as a result.

I've put a fair bit of airpower into the landing but left this to auto-intercept and GS.



Last point, the Germans attacked my beach-head with what they thought were good chances to squash it.


This is the first attack and a few comments might be useful as to why it failed.

1) their DL was low, my real base CV was closer to 50 not 13;
2) They had to move to combat, now they mostly avoided the higher interdiction but that is still some fatigue/disruption;
3) naval guns are nasty – here they landed 250 hits on the German infantry those 170 disrupted elements are removed from the fight;
4) Finally my CV inflated due to the beachhead rule:

16.7.4: "Defending units on a temporary port hex, or adjacent to a temporary port hex and also adjacent to a sea hex, will have their end of combat CVs multiplied by 4 when determining whether they retreat. If they hold, but would have retreated had they not received this bonus, they will instead suffer additional losses to reflect their fighting to the last to hold the beachhead"

So my CV went from 50 to 35 (ie I lost as this was around 4.5-1) to 140. But lost elements due to disruption also cost the Germans heavily.

The good bit for the Germans was that my losses also inflated yielding a lot of VP.

A wee digression

Since I like data and am always interested in comparisons, I opened Xhoel's excellent AAR. I'll use his T11 data as that maps onto the charts I put into the post at the foot of p.1.

Ground losses he reported Axis of 153,000 men, 1,600 guns and 125 tanks and Allies of 41,000 men, 110 guns and 370 tanks. Killed are 22,300 and 7,100 respectively.

We've managed Axis losses of 131,000 men, 1,450 guns and 340 tanks against Allied losses of 68,400 men, 450 guns and 700 tanks.

In their game 54,000 Axis were reported as captured, I've only managed 40,000.

The only metric were I am ahead is destroyed tanks, basically the way I use allied air power does tend to produce this outcome.

By that stage of their game, the only secondary landing had been at the south of end of Calabria (that saw little fighting), I've managed 2 very contested operations.

In the air, axis pilot kia were 1,150 and allies of 3,300. We've managed almost 1,800 axis pilots and 3,600 allied.

Axis fighter losses were 1,100, NF 190 and bomber (all types) of 290. Allied were 780 (FB), 50 (NF), 30 tactical bombers and 1,900 level bombers. Pure naval air losses were 310.

We've got Axis F-2,000; NF 190 and bombers 300. Allied of 1,120 fighters, 150 NF (remember that in Italy in particular I use the NF as longer range day escorts), 120 tactical bombers and 1,600 level bombers. Pure naval air losses are 410.

He also has a nice chart of allied losses by plane type, a few of the more important (Xhoel's numbers first):

Stirling 61 (31)
Halifax 154 (66)
Lancaster 212 (109)
Wellington 136 (160)
P38 201 (370)
B-25 50 (73)
B-26 180 (371)
B-17 890 (400)
B-24 70 (200)

He doesn't give a VP score so that makes it hard to read the pay off for the different patterns of activity.

So on the ground, I've taken huge losses for a bit more ground, the difference is that Xhoel's retreat to a line anchored on Naples was very much on his terms. On the other hand, our air war is much more brutal, I basically push my air assets as hard as I can in 1943. What is interesting is the bombers I use in small groups (B24/26) have really taken heavy losses as they can get isolated while my large B-17 cluster has had a relatively easy time of it. But my P-38s have paid a high price for protecting the bombers.

I also think its in the strategic airwar where having played this a few times works in your favour. Its not so much knowing the rules as having a bit of a feel for the feedback loops and how to pace operations.

T13A – 25 September 1943

Since this is a bit of a transition maybe a good time to review the air OOB. As is probably clear, most tactical formations have flown south for some sun and to build up their vitamin D stocks before the British winter arrives.

FC is down to 320 fighters, mostly Spitfire V and still keeping up the pressure over the Ruhr. Bomber Command now has over 1,000 bombers about 600 Lancasters (I and III), 360 Halifax and the balance Mosquitos all protected by 150 fighters.

2 Tactical Air has been gradually swapping its planes and have ended up with a mix of Mitchells and Wellingtons. For a 2 engined bomber these both have range (1600 miles) and can carry a mix of payloads – including very heavy bombs if that is what I want.



Bulk of US planes in the UK are in 8 AAF with 1400 bombers and 240 fighters. I'm hitting shortages of P-38s but longer ranged P47s and P51s are due soon. Still quite a few B17F in use as I convert when they have to rest (and there is not that much difference in the two variants). 9 AAF is a shell but has some P47s (since I can't convert these to P38s they are also doing AS missons).

Italy I've had to reorganise on geographical lines (or you get into a real mess with having to double check almost every assignment). So Malta Air has been expanded and holds a mix of planes.



Strategic Air has a mix of 500 bombers (most B17 or B26 but some British), 120 escort fighters and 85 Mosquitos (I have these in strategic air as I often run out of AD for tactical air).

Tactical Air has 1700 planes. Nearly 800 FB (mix of roles but all relatively short range), 350 tactical bombers and 440 2 engined bombers. The P-40/Kittyhawk IV is my workhorse plane here as it combines an ok bombload with a decent range – which helps ease the pressure on the few forward airbases I have.



I have some planes deployed that are not much use as I simply can't swap them over to something more effective. In particular the P39s are kept back as defensive air cover near my main bomber bases – useful in case of something sneaky by the Luftwaffe. Just so I don't assign by mistake these are linked to Coastal Air.

But for info, here's a list of my top A2A formations. The P-38s have inflicted heavy losses in return for their own. Odd to see a number of B-17 formations so high up.

T13 – 25 September 1943

VP chart makes happier reading – not least as Brindisi also revolted so I am now starting to gain a few more city points. Clearly the U-Boats will need some attention.



100 air groups out of use, not going to over-ride any of this as fortunately the Germans have disengaged from the south. Given the mess the partisans have made of their rail net I don't think they had much choice, but I'll take the lull before the battle for Foggia commences.

As a result, most of the Italian airforces have a week off, happy to leave Tactical Air to GS (not least it is also redeploying to its nice new bases). Strategic Air shifts its attention to Naples (B26s), B17s go for the railyards at Foggia and Mosquitos back to interdiction over the rail lines (I am finding this a very useful combination of plane and mission).

Northern Europe. BC all 3 groups over the Ruhr (2 with one target missions), Tactical Air around Kleve, 8 AAF B26s hits Emden (with escorts and a nearby AS), B24s return to Kassel, B17s go for a mix of U-Boats and HI at Stettin – I was a bit worried over this but its probably worth a major assault now as the weather is worsening.

Outcomes. BC claims that the Ruhr no longer exists, with serious damage from all its raids.

2 Tactical Air reports heavy damage to the smaller towns west of the Rhine.



8 AAF reports much more damage to the Tiger production (which is odd as they claimed to have blown up the factory last week), the Emden/Wilhelmshaven raid was effective (and surprisingly no German fighters). The main attack on Stettin seems to have done a lot of damage but also ran into very heavy fighter cover.



In Italy, Naples escaped without much damage and the Mosquitos reported a lot of German fighters but they still generated some interdiction on the transport routes from Napoli to Rome. The B17s flattened the rail yard at Foggia (thus reducing the depot capacity).

The good thing is I now have a better idea of where the German army is.



Not much happened in Italy, forced the surrender of a German fortified unit interdicting the coast rail to Taranto and pushed a German regiment into a pocket. The unit at Potenza will probably escape but should still net the equivalent of 3 divisions (incl the garrison at Bari).

Rest of 7 Army has landed and I've permanently motorised a couple of divisions (this really boosts my mobility and is not easy for a German player to predict how far I can move.

Getting Brindisi for free is a bonus. As a level 2 port it can be repaired in one turn with a spare TF so that gets a permanent source of supply into operation. While in the end Taranto and Bari are more important, they take time to come into usage.



So Rome comes back into view ...

Looks like the decent weather will last in Italy for a few more turns, so need to think about whether I can gamble with 8 and 7 Armies still so far south and very badly deployed if the goal is to lunge north.

Think it all depends on how the Germans are deployed for t14. I only have 2 out of the 3 potential invasions ready to go (the other will take about 3 weeks) so its gamble as I'd struggle to break out if there is serious resistance. But if the Germans are still defending Foggia-Naples then even with just a few armoured formations I can probably get Rome – and that really is the purpose of everything I do in Italy in 1943.

I have no idea where the bulk of the German bombers are, so I presume they will get fully committed to contest any invasion but I also have the Coastal Air formations free of other commitments now.

A single German unit in Taranto can prevent all that partisan activity nonsense in southern Italy until the allies get close. I usually plop a fortification unit there and disband it when it's time to pull back.

Yes. I rather learned about Taranto the hard way. Live and learn...well, for me. My Pixeltruppen, less so.

T14 – 2 October 1943

My thinking for this turn had all been about Rome - or not - with a decision reliant on if the German mobile forces were still along the Ofanto. I actually didn't expect this.

Although my deployment at the end of last turn did invite it ...



Last turns hammering of the Ruhr clearly paid off and it seems I guessed right as to where the U-Boat facilities had repaired.



Overall 75 formations resting mostly from BC and 8 AAF. But am missing a lot from Tactical Air due to their deployment to their new bases last week. Those I have can use very heavy bomb loads or something specialist (such as the Hurricane IV and their 40mm cannons – basically designed to rip apart a tank) which will partly compensate for lack of numbers. The Mosquitos stop molesting German trains and join in.

The B-17s attack to suppress Naples and I place a naval air mission off shore to close it down.

The useful part of having a forced rest with so much of tactical air is that it will come back next turn.



Malta air command commits to the Rome operation, this is all a bit hasty but the German offensive has created major problems and some interesting options. While I am blind to what they have at Rome it can't be much – especially not their elite formations. Ideally I'd like interdiction laid down over the transport routes but there we are.

Looks like the weather in Italy stays clear for next turn.

I also remain clueless as to where the German bombers are. My guess is they are all eating mortadella and polenta. I suspect they will be back bombing fish next turn.


Nothing interesting in N Europe. Had to rest the specialist sections of 8 AAF. B-17s doing trucks around Mainz (I've added a BC night mission to this raid). BC the Ruhr, Tactical Air the trucks at Antwerp.


Outcomes in NW Europe were unremarkable. BC missed Mainz completely but 8 AAF hit the main truck factories.

Bombing of the units along the Ofanto produced only limited losses, at least I know have a better idea what is around Rome – and some protection to the south. The Pzrs in Civitavecchia are obviously a worry.

My bombing missions from Sardinia-Corsica ran into fairly heavy German fighter cover which caused some losses. Mainly FB seem to evade/abort rather than get shot down in this sort of situation.

The port at Naples should be out of use and I have blocked it off as a source of naval interdiction.




Allied counter-attacks re-established communications with the cut off units. I'm going to keep them in position as I'd like to slow any German retreat and I don't think they have the capacity to repeat the encirclements. I'm assuming that 53 Br Inf will get beaten back but that will take them MP and they will still need to move back to the Ofanto through ZoC.

Clearing up the bypassed German units in the SW (its clear that there was less infantry and more FZ), first attack on Bari failed. In combination I think this will give me 2 divisions of German infantry cut off and surrendered. But first I need to isolate Bari and I have other uses for my naval assets.

Beyond that, first sighting of a defensive line at Naples – with some luck the Rome operation will bypass that (though Naples is needed for VP and to reduce naval interdiction).



All of which leads to Rome on a shoestring led by US 5 Army. At least I have had very little naval attrition. Not shown but 82 Arbn will be joining in. I have more that I can add but have kept them back in their ports for now – I want to see if I can actually push off the beaches before putting too much at sea.

As you can see, the landings are single divisions. That had the advantage of speeding preparation but the cost is in being vulnerable if the Germans can make a quick counter-attack. If this was going to be delayed till the more usual December, I intended to add a second division to at least one (pref both) stacks and a third landing site had been selected across from the Lido (that is the unit that is not ready).

My third landing division is given a new target.



Ground losses – less German tanks than I hoped for but if they are still in the open next turn they will get hit by the bulk of tactical air. Relatively few losses for me, especially after a turn of naval movements.

German truck losses now almost 18,000.



One thing I've not managed so far is many destroyed German units.



No idea how this is going to unfold. My guess is 2-3 more turns of clear weather in Italy and then the quick transition to heavy rains, but usually it clears up with cold weather in early December.

ORIGINAL: loki100


No idea how this is going to unfold. My guess is 2-3 more turns of clear weather in Italy and then the quick transition to heavy rains, but usually it clears up with cold weather in early December.

In my current game vs AI, the Allies and Germans have been subjugated to rains/snow from November 1942 until April 1943. It...has...not...stopped. I think i am losing more units to attrition than to Allied attacks. I think its finally looking to clear up in May, but it has been absolutely relentless!!!

ORIGINAL: HermanGraf

ORIGINAL: loki100


No idea how this is going to unfold. My guess is 2-3 more turns of clear weather in Italy and then the quick transition to heavy rains, but usually it clears up with cold weather in early December.

In my current game vs AI, the Allies and Germans have been subjugated to rains/snow from November 1942 until April 1943. It...has...not...stopped. I think i am losing more units to attrition than to Allied attacks. I think its finally looking to clear up in May, but it has been absolutely relentless!!!

aye there is a random element, you get a feel for how to interpret the combination of the baseline weather and the impact of weather fronts. As the allied player the rain/mud from Feb 45 to the end of the game is sooo frustrating

T15 – 9 October 1943

So opening situation. Germans in full retreat in the south after driving back 6 Armoured Div and a rough screen around my landings. Note that the paratroops added substantively to the interdiction generated by my air power. Massive German air effort at sea but they haven't closed off the sea lanes.

The immediate worry at Rome is the fresh 24 Pzr division in Civitavecchia, the rest are clearly showing the signs of a long move and heavy interdiction.



VP situation fairly predictable as my losses increase.



Good news is only 50 air groups out of operation.

So in Italy, given the German retreat I keep most of Tactical Air with no mission (by default they then get allocated to a GS mission anywhere in the AFHQ area of operations) apart from some P-40s bombing the defenders of Bari.

Try to regain naval control, some very specific bombing missions and hopefully a lot of interdiction. The Mosquitos in particular are hitting the communication link between Frosinone and Rome. My assumption is the bulk of the German army is now well north of Foggia.

In northern Europe a wider spread than recently. Bulk of BC is predictable but it also raids the U-Boats at Emden and tanks at Nuremberg. Most of 8 AAF is going for tank production in the Hannover-Magdeburg region but the B24s return to Danzig (I don't want that U-Boat plant repairing in December when I have limited capacity).

Tactical air tries something different, railyard and unit at Amiens. This is one of the German garrison cities so I know there is something there, do enough damage and I may push their cv below the threshold.

Outcomes

Well if Harris is to be believed, there will be no Panthers produced at Nuremberg for some time (that raid was a gamble at low altitude and in the day), usual results in the Ruhr and it seems as if Emden will be shut down despite a lot of German fighter cover.

8 AAF probably did enough additional damage at Danzig to remove that from the target list. It also ran into 300+ German fighters. Heavy damage to the Pzr IV production at Magdeburg (again a lot of enemy fighters), may have knocked out the vehicle and U-boat production at Hannover (again a lot of enemy fighters).



Italy, my twin goals were to generate interdiction and inflict ground damage. So bad news is my control of the invasion site is tenuous, we both have ground interdiction but I would have liked more. Hopefully the Rome depot is pretty much out of use due to damage to the Railyard.

Not much axis ground elements destroyed but hopefully more disrupted. As ever in this sort of situation, both for air and ground its about the ability to sustain operations and my hope is the German bombers are battered (even with low outright losses) so they can't sustain this.



On the ground Bari was quickly cleared as were most of the bypassed formations. HG and the Schmalz formations surrounded, pushed just beyond Foggia. Salerno captured and a TF assigned to its repair. First usage of Taranto and Brindisi for supply deliveries.

Rome, reinforce the landings with the British airlanding division.

Managed to create a bit of space first by the US paras clearing the hex opposite Rome and then a couple of rather desperate hasty attacks cleared the SS from the hex to the south of my landings.

I've managed to get a bit of space as a result and got 5 Army HQ ashore, I can feed in SU. In particular there is a lot of AA in the landing area now.

Not brilliant but in the circumstances not too bad.

I also committed my transport planes to a massive resupply effort.



Losses were fairly grim. Still very few Axis units actually destroyed.



Best news in the air is I seem to have culled the Fw190 FB, still no real damage done to their level bombers.



So …

a) I now regret this lunge, it was too early and it is going to cost me – not least a 2 hex wide landing here is too narrow (with 3 hexes at the worst you have a defensive line and easy to reinforce/swap);
b) at the moment the Germans only have one formation at Rome (24 Pzr) that can attack, it clearly can't dislodge my actual landing sites but may be enough to push one of my advanced units back. I think on its own it will struggle as the tanks managed to move inland and I am well protected by AA – but if they do dislodge one of my landing sites, its going to get very bad, very fast.
c) I might be wrong about this. In part it depends then on the state of the units moving from the south, there is interdiction in the way and they will have fatigue (they will have been moving at the limit of their capacity for 3 turns). More worrying is a few formations where I have no useful intelligence.
d) Getting that hex to the south of the current layout (ie where the other division should have been) was a huge relief as the Pzrs must have been hit by interdiction (it routed rather than just retreated).
e) Seems to depend on if the Luftwaffe can sustain last turn's massive effort. I don't believe they can, while their losses were not too high, they must have taken a lot of flak related damage.
f) returning to the good news, Tactical Air is fresh and I can deploy into the Foggia region next turn where it can mostly easily bomb around Rome.

So …

it all seems to depend on what the Germans can do in their turn, If the current perimeter holds I've probably got away with this – but at a high cost. It will then depend on how fast 7 and 8 Armies can push up.