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RE: Okay I see a mistake
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:33 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Ian R
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
As an add on Hans, the game doesn't allow for an extended range launch from an Aircraft Carrier to a target and then land on a closer base after the attack (the Japanese tried this tactic a number of times later in the war).
How close do you need to be to a 'staging base' to fly a mission on the same day?
Or does it just not happen?
Other than CAP (with high fatigue following), I can't recall seeing it happen.
NO combination of staging and strike during the same turn can be set in the orders phase. You might, as a fluke, give orders for a squadron to fly to another base and then have the commander mount an attack on his own initiative, but if it is even possible I have never seen it.
RE: Okay I see a mistake
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:13 pm
by rustysi
How close do you need to be to a 'staging base' to fly a mission on the same day?
Or does it just not happen?
AFAIK its supposed to work, but knowing the game I'm sure a ton of 'die rolls' will determine whether it does or not. TBH I don't really recall if it dose or not myself. I used it, or attempted to do so at times. I'll have to keep a closer eye on it in the future.
RE: Okay I see a mistake
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:29 pm
by dr.hal
"Staging" an air raid in this game is a three day process, you send the A/C forward to the take off base on day one, bomb your target on day two, return to your start point on day three. As BB indicates, you can't do it otherwise. It might have been nice if on day two you could have your A/C return to their "home port" (the base they originated from on day one) but unlike a task force there is no ability to do that with aircraft.
RE: Okay I see a mistake
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:37 pm
by Barb
Actually its a One Day thing (supposing the "Day" equal turn and starts with Replay.
E.G.:
0. You are giving orders for the next turn, order the unit from Home Base A to Forward Base B (the transfer), and give it orders to fly a daylight mission to bomb X
1. Unit is exposed to whatever could happen to Forward Base B during the Single Night Phase (Naval bombardment/Night air bombing).
2. Still within the same turn resolution now follows the Morning Air phase - the unit will probably fly its assigned mission to bomb X (rolls, etc.)
3. Still within the same turn resolution now follows the Afternoon Air phase - the unit will probably wait this out (exceptions being CAP/Escort/Naval Attack/Naval Search/ASW which are flown on both AM/PM phases) and subjected to retaliation.
4. Turn ends. During the next order phase you move the unit from Forward Base B to Home Base A.
5. During another turn resolution the unit is already on Home Base A.
Thus in fact the unit is based on Forward Base B during a single day period - One Night Phase, AM Phase, PM Phase.
IRL it was similar - say Townsville to Port Moresby transfer happened during the evening to land at PM with the darkness approaching. Planes would be refueled, crew rested. Early morning next day they would probably be already in the air (so as no to be caught on ground) en route to target. Once back from the mission, they would land at PM, refuel and depart back to Townsville ASAP. This minimized risks of being on ground at Port Moresby AF, but resulted in Townsville-PM and PM-Rabaul-PM-Townsville time spent in the air during less than 24 hours!
RE: Okay I see a mistake
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:18 pm
by BBfanboy
Good point Barb! Never thought of giving strike orders before being in range (other than carrier aircraft that have their airfield close the range). Don't think I will try that with anything but a very well rested unit, but it could come in handy in an emergency! Thanks for the explanation!
RE: Okay I see a mistake
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:01 am
by Barb
Beware, the transfer range from Home Base A to Front Base B should be as short as possible with well rested group. It is very common to have such unit jump forward only to see it sitting on the base the whole day without doing the intended strike mission (subject to rolls, fatigue, etc).
RE: Okay I see a mistake
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:41 am
by HansBolter
ORIGINAL: Barb
Actually its a One Day thing (supposing the "Day" equal turn and starts with Replay.
E.G.:
0. You are giving orders for the next turn, order the unit from Home Base A to Forward Base B (the transfer), and give it orders to fly a daylight mission to bomb X
1. Unit is exposed to whatever could happen to Forward Base B during the Single Night Phase (Naval bombardment/Night air bombing).
2. Still within the same turn resolution now follows the Morning Air phase - the unit will probably fly its assigned mission to bomb X (rolls, etc.)
3. Still within the same turn resolution now follows the Afternoon Air phase - the unit will probably wait this out (exceptions being CAP/Escort/Naval Attack/Naval Search/ASW which are flown on both AM/PM phases) and subjected to retaliation.
4. Turn ends. During the next order phase you move the unit from Forward Base B to Home Base A.
5. During another turn resolution the unit is already on Home Base A.
Thus in fact the unit is based on Forward Base B during a single day period - One Night Phase, AM Phase, PM Phase.
IRL it was similar - say Townsville to Port Moresby transfer happened during the evening to land at PM with the darkness approaching. Planes would be refueled, crew rested. Early morning next day they would probably be already in the air (so as no to be caught on ground) en route to target. Once back from the mission, they would land at PM, refuel and depart back to Townsville ASAP. This minimized risks of being on ground at Port Moresby AF, but resulted in Townsville-PM and PM-Rabaul-PM-Townsville time spent in the air during less than 24 hours!
Depending on the distance staged the air unit will either not fly in the morning phase and fly the assigned mission in the afternoon phase OR not fly at all and wait until the next day to execute the mission.
RE: Okay I see a mistake
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:48 pm
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: L0ckAndL0ad
Off the top of my head, historically, B-17s had to land and refuel somewhere along the way, to be able to bomb stuff in New Guinea, while being based in Oz. Obviously, you can't do that in WITP AE.
You can of course, fly them to Port Moresby and then bomb Rabaul. Then fly them back to Townsville. Where's the prob?
RE: Okay I see a mistake
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:21 pm
by RangerJoe
ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: L0ckAndL0ad
Off the top of my head, historically, B-17s had to land and refuel somewhere along the way, to be able to bomb stuff in New Guinea, while being based in Oz. Obviously, you can't do that in WITP AE.
You can of course, fly them to Port Moresby and then bomb Rabaul. Then fly them back to Townsville. Where's the prob?
Too much work for someone? maybe?
RE: Okay I see a mistake
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:09 am
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: L0ckAndL0ad
Off the top of my head, historically, B-17s had to land and refuel somewhere along the way, to be able to bomb stuff in New Guinea, while being based in Oz. Obviously, you can't do that in WITP AE.
You can of course, fly them to Port Moresby and then bomb Rabaul. Then fly them back to Townsville. Where's the prob?
Too much work for someone? maybe?
Or the time they have to sit on the ground, during which a Japanese raid or bombardment could hit them.
RE: Okay I see a mistake
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:49 am
by RangerJoe
That can always happen. Strong fighter CAP, AAA, and good Naval Search can mitigate the risks.
RE: Okay I see a mistake
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:39 pm
by rustysi
ORIGINAL: rustysi
How close do you need to be to a 'staging base' to fly a mission on the same day?
Or does it just not happen?
AFAIK its supposed to work, but knowing the game I'm sure a ton of 'die rolls' will determine whether it does or not. TBH I don't really recall if it dose or not myself. I used it, or attempted to do so at times. I'll have to keep a closer eye on it in the future.
Just an FYI.
Manual, 7.2.3, transfers, "...and it can fly regular air Missions the turn it is transferred"... Again I'm sure there are a litany of 'die rolls' involved. Not to mention weather.