Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: rustysi

ORIGINAL: Scott_USN

Were those B26 Marauders bombing?

Midway launched its bombers when the incoming raid was detected. IIRC it consisted of, 6-TBF's, 4-B26's, and the rest I forget. They did launch a number of B-17's as well.

Major Lofton Henderson commanded a US Marine Vindicator (Wind Indicator) squadron which glide bombed - or tried to. He died as did many of his men. The airfield at Guadalcanal was named after him . . . [8|]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

ORIGINAL: Anachro

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I haven't seen the movie, but my 25-year-old son saw it last week. He doesn't know enough WWII history to realize (or really, to care) that the movie does or doesn't portray the role of the Navy fighters correctly or which class of bombers did what. That didn't matter to him. What mattered was that, in his word, the CGI was awful. He says the movie is a major dud.

Given that I am closer in age to your son (hey, I'm 30!) and at the risk of sounding like one of those simpletons that just cares about "purty things" and graphics, I will have to agree with your son. The atrocious quality of the CGI very much distracted me from the other parts of the movie. At times, it felt like a B-list movie, though one with a big budget. This is why I said that even with all its historical warts I somewhat preferred the '76 movie: I wasn't constantly distracted by obviously fake visuals.

Uh, another one.[:D] You too, get off my lawn.[:'(]


Seriously though, you think that with all the money they spend on these things the could come up with good graphics.

I haven't seen the movie.

Maybe they wanted an anime or cartoon, or something strange.

ORIGINAL: rustysi

There were Wildcats escorting

Not from Midway.

In the movie no escort was mentioned for the attacks from the US carriers. Don't think they showed a Wildcat the whole movie.

20 Buffalo's and 6 F4F were going to escort but the attack by the Japanese were incoming to midway having been picked up by raedar and they were sent to intercept while the bombers flew off without escort. Buffalo's took a beating 13 of them having been shot down and 2 F4Fs were shot down to 5 B5N and 1 A6M lost. All but 2 of the American fighters were written off due to damage. (sounds like my 1942 air battles!)

Interesting the only torpedo hit was from a PBY on a oil tanker at 1AM.

Wiki so not my knowledge.

shot down to 5 B5N and 1 A6M lost

The planes lost by the Japanese in their strike on Midway may have been more significant than is realized since the Midway fighters happened to have concentrated against the Hiryu bombers. When it came to striking back at the Americans after the dive bombers struck the KB Hiryu was only able to put up 10 torpedo bombers and one of those was a refugee from Kaga (IIRC)

ORIGINAL: Anachro

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I haven't seen the movie, but my 25-year-old son saw it last week. He doesn't know enough WWII history to realize (or really, to care) that the movie does or doesn't portray the role of the Navy fighters correctly or which class of bombers did what. That didn't matter to him. What mattered was that, in his word, the CGI was awful. He says the movie is a major dud.

Given that I am closer in age to your son (hey, I'm 30!) and at the risk of sounding like one of those simpletons that just cares about "purty things" and graphics, I will have to agree with your son. The atrocious quality of the CGI very much distracted me from the other parts of the movie. At times, it felt like a B-list movie, though one with a big budget. This is why I said that even with all its historical warts I somewhat preferred the '76 movie: I wasn't constantly distracted by obviously fake visuals.

I saw it. The visual choices and how CGI decisions were made is a mystery to me. It looked like none of the designers who made those planes had seen how a plane moves through the air, and no one in charge of the brief understood how groups of planes were instructed to move together. Every effect of flak and tracer and hit was expanded to extremes. The ships were sightly better I thought, and didn't move too unrealistically, but as all have commented, were bunched too tightly and included uselessly unhistorical types (Yamatos).

They obviously wanted more video game than reality. Which sucks.

I just saw this movie on the plane. I am surprised nobody here is critical of the Marshall Islands Raid sequence. Did you enjoy the dogfighting in the deep canyons of Roi Namur? Because I didn't.....not only did Enterprise not bomb Roi, even if they did there aren't deep canyons anywhere within 1000 miles of the Marshall Islands.

Oh, they also showed a dud torp hit on a Japanese Heavy Cruiser, though I suppose we could stretch it and say that is Katori. Also, there is a near-miss Kamikaze attack on Enterprise thwarted by a tail gunner on deck, that whole sequence is BS, though I suppose that's Hollywood.

Look, some of it's OK, and it's way better than that other movie that I won't name, but they lost me at the Marshall raid

Also, there is a near-miss Kamikaze attack on Enterprise thwarted by a tail gunner on deck, that whole sequence is BS, though I suppose that's Hollywood.

As a pure Hollywood BS sort of thing, the sequence is unbelievable EXCEPT that it actually happened pretty much as shown.

ORIGINAL: spence

Also, there is a near-miss Kamikaze attack on Enterprise thwarted by a tail gunner on deck, that whole sequence is BS, though I suppose that's Hollywood.

As a pure Hollywood BS sort of thing, the sequence is unbelievable EXCEPT that it actually happened pretty much as shown.

Really? Didn't know that.....so that one gets a pass!

The "Canyons of Roi" sequence still really bugs me though

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: spence

Also, there is a near-miss Kamikaze attack on Enterprise thwarted by a tail gunner on deck, that whole sequence is BS, though I suppose that's Hollywood.

As a pure Hollywood BS sort of thing, the sequence is unbelievable EXCEPT that it actually happened pretty much as shown.

Really? Didn't know that.....so that one gets a pass!

The "Canyons of Roi" sequence still really bugs me though

Looked like Hawaii or something but the tail gunner may have just been pissed off at the ship gunners lack of experience.

As for graphics I thought they were OK since almost all of it had to be created by computer. Some parts were worse than others though.

ORIGINAL: spence

shot down to 5 B5N and 1 A6M lost

The planes lost by the Japanese in their strike on Midway may have been more significant than is realized since the Midway fighters happened to have concentrated against the Hiryu bombers. When it came to striking back at the Americans after the dive bombers struck the KB Hiryu was only able to put up 10 torpedo bombers and one of those was a refugee from Kaga (IIRC)

Yeah strange how the smaller parts of a operation like this could ripple across the whole battle.

Speaking of the B5Ns in Hiryu's airgroup Wiki has the following to say:

The air group suffered heavily during the attack: 2 B5Ns were shot down en route to the island, another was shot down by AA fire, 1 was forced to ditch on the trip back, another disappeared on the return trip and 5 were damaged beyond repair.[42]

So in fact 1/2 of Hiryu's torpedo bombers were lost in the Midway raid. And with a battle damaged B5N (also from the Midway raid) the strike leader of the B5Ns that later attacked Yorktown didn't have enough fuel to return to Hiryu after the strike.

The biggest lost was the air crews that would never be replaced with the same caliber and experience. Not to mention seasoned Admirals going down with their ships, ridiculous.

Interesting the only torpedo hit was from a PBY on a oil tanker at 1AM.

Wiki so not my knowledge.

Yeah, that happened the 'night' before when the PBY spotted some 'support group' of the raid. Kinda made the whole 'suspense' thing moot. All they had to do was find the KB that they now knew was there the next morning. Of course not a small point.[:D]

BTW, the torp was a dud.[8|]

ORIGINAL: spence

Also, there is a near-miss Kamikaze attack on Enterprise thwarted by a tail gunner on deck, that whole sequence is BS, though I suppose that's Hollywood.

As a pure Hollywood BS sort of thing, the sequence is unbelievable EXCEPT that it actually happened pretty much as shown.

And the gunner was decorated.

ORIGINAL: Scott_USN

The biggest lost was the air crews that would never be replaced with the same caliber and experience. Not to mention seasoned Admirals going down with their ships, ridiculous.

And yet another myth about the battle. According to "Shattered Sword" the IJN lost ~25% of the pilots involved. Not insignificant, but not exactly shattering either. Of course the lost CV's were, as well as the many mechanics that were lost. These were more difficult for the Japanese to replace than the U.S..

As to what became of those pilots, I've no idea. But news media types were dispersed far, and wide, so they couldn't 'spill the beans'.

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Interesting the only torpedo hit was from a PBY on a oil tanker at 1AM.

Wiki so not my knowledge.

Yeah, that happened the 'night' before when the PBY spotted some 'support group' of the raid. Kinda made the whole 'suspense' thing moot. All they had to do was find the KB that they now knew was there the next morning. Of course not a small point.[:D]

BTW, the torp was a dud.[8|]

It was actually the invasion force and the tanker was not slowed down.

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: spence

Also, there is a near-miss Kamikaze attack on Enterprise thwarted by a tail gunner on deck, that whole sequence is BS, though I suppose that's Hollywood.

As a pure Hollywood BS sort of thing, the sequence is unbelievable EXCEPT that it actually happened pretty much as shown.

Really? Didn't know that.....so that one gets a pass!

The "Canyons of Roi" sequence still really bugs me though

Yeah it's brought up in Shattered Sword. Been a while since I read it, but IIRC one of the Japanese ship commanders (Not sure if Nagumo himself or not) was shockingly impressed by the bravery of the pilot. Highly recommend the book.

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Interesting the only torpedo hit was from a PBY on a oil tanker at 1AM.

Wiki so not my knowledge.

Yeah, that happened the 'night' before when the PBY spotted some 'support group' of the raid. Kinda made the whole 'suspense' thing moot. All they had to do was find the KB that they now knew was there the next morning. Of course not a small point.[:D]

BTW, the torp was a dud.[8|]

I was wondering why the story was a little short on what happened to the ship. I looked up the oiler and it was still at sea in 1945! Those torps... criminal.

I found the movie to be a 2 hour video game.