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And on page 298...the announcement of prosecution zones and what they are in the patch note index.

"Prosecution areas (additional zones that patrolling units will
not enter normally, but will pursue contacts in) added as an
option to patrol missions. Prosecution areas act as a way to
restrain patrolling units. For example, with a prosecution area,
a patrolling aircraft neither breaks away from its scheduled
patrol to investigate a contact far away from the combat area
nor tries to follow retreating enemy fighters all the way back
to airfields with known SAM batteries around them."

"Does it really make sense that some of the most descriptive text for this is in a release note for an ancient version tucked away in a back corner?"

That is completely wrong. As shown above, there is a section on prosecution zones right in the mission building section, numbered 7. The only mention of it prior to that is the Lua section only as a reference. Even if I didn't use search, its right where it should be. The supposed corner its squirreled away in is not where you would first encounter prosecution zone description. I suspect you didn't really look either.

The devs and some parts of the community have put a HUGE amount of effort in indirectly and directly helping document the game enough that players who actually want to learn the game, and not just jump in and play the game and get frustrated, can do it. When they started putting the effort to enhance the documentation and tutorials, I actually pushed on shifting resources to it. My reasoning was that the people who complain about the documentation are the same people that make little to no effort to use it to its advantage. Are the documents, videos, and tutorials perfect? No, they can always be better. New players should always be welcome to ask questions. But my personal expectation is that will:

1) A least look at the manual and use it as a starting point if they question something.
2) Read the "New Players" thread
3) Watch a couple of the introductory videos
4) Try a few of the tutorials

There is so much available to at least start familiarizing yourself with the game that coming in with multiple questions that could have been answered through the above resources is, as I said, wasting people's time. Especially when you start sucking the devs into the conversation.

So please explain to me why the description of prosecution zones is out of order and scattered? And also explain that the expectation should not be for someone to actually reference the resources that have taken countless hours of the devs' and communities' time to assemble.

You don't need to be this aggressive, and this topic doesn't need to be even bother anyone. I never meant to annoy someone.

Maybe it was my mistake to ask question about prosecution zone. I only followed the first two folder in air tutorials (air battle and strike tutorial over Israel and Africa) and I couldn't find the prosecution zone explanation, or maybe I missed it from tutorial. For some reason, at that right moment of thinking about AAW patrol and reading this post, I just forget to check the manual. I was so occupied to other contents and digesting so many information about this game so just couldn't catch what I was doing. I already self-searched a lot of info from manual and from this forum. But obviously I did mistake about this part, just forget to check manual. So, I'm sorry. Are you satisfied?

Speaking of manual, I read part by part just like you wrote and this is not a first time I play this kind of game. Like I wrote I already searched for things from manual and this forum just like I did for all other wargames I played. Combat Mission John Tiller Campaigns Graviteam Close Combat Flashpoint Campaigns Armored Brigade Command Ops 2 Steel Beasts Pro... and I can list more. But obviously air and naval games are fresh to me so I'm experiencing a steep learning curve.

You don't need to be show such noobhating attitude. I know it was too easy question, but anyone can do same mistakes especially beginners for games like this. And honestly, I don't think such "too easy question" is mistake or wrong doing. It is possible to happen. If you don't like it, then you don't need to answer in open forum. Some other player will answer. You don't need to lecture someone in front of all others in humiliating fashion or blaming tone, you could PM me to not to ask too easy question if you have different idea. Or, you could choose more friendly and more nice and simple answer of "check manual, search for it, it is useful to prevent such situation" Or something like that.

Honestly, I never get such kind of reaction to this kind of mistakenly easy question, and I never answered like this to other beginner's so easy questions. I'm honest, I never wrote like "But checking the documentation on basic game functions before posting a question saves everyone some time." to any beginner's questions. I usually choose much simple short and friendly answer like "check manual, especially this part, that will help". Why do you bother if you think this is waste of time? You could just ignore. Are you a some sort of monitoring person of this forum? Then you could write more friendly to me. Isn't it?

I will stop posting about this one. thewood1, if you want to continue this issue, PM me.

And for all other people if anyone annoyed by my "too easy" questions and all other people in this thread, I apologize. But I will not stop asking questions. Maybe my questions will be better as I get more experience. But I do believe 'easy questions' are not wrong, and even if they look silly, it would be better to show more friendly approach.

"easy" questions are not wrong or bad or whatever. But they a waste of energy if you yourself don't take advantage of what you have right in front of you. You said specifically that you didn't see it I the manual. I pointed out how its right there. Then someone else comes in with misinformation and says its too hard to find in the manual. Then, as an example, I showed exactly where they were and even in the right sections.

If you come in and ask a couple "easy" questions, I don't think its a bid deal. But you just started playing the game and the questions you are asking sure make it look like you don't even attempt to answer questions yourself. My initial comment was to take your time, use the resources available to you, and then ask questions. But if you push and keep wanting devs and other people to do your work for, I'll push back too.

And for all other people if anyone annoyed by my "too easy" questions and all other people in this thread, I apologize. But I will not stop asking questions. Maybe my questions will be better as I get more experience. But I do believe 'easy questions' are not wrong, and even if they look silly, it would be better to show more friendly approach.

I was not annoyed at all, and see no reason for anyone to apologize, I hope in the end though you and marksdoran (and anyone else reading the thread) got the information needed to use\setup Prosecution Areas (and other options) and it helps enhances your game play experience, and that if you have further questions\clarifications you ask them.

ORIGINAL: thewood1
"easy" questions are not wrong or bad or whatever. But they a waste of energy if you yourself don't take advantage of what you have right in front of you.

You can just ignore, no one force you to answer. Then it will not be a waste of energy.

You said specifically that you didn't see it I the manual. I pointed out how its right there. Then someone else comes in with misinformation and says its too hard to find in the manual. Then, as an example, I showed exactly where they were and even in the right sections.

I told you that was mistake. I forget to check the manual. It just happened once in this forum. That is all. All you could write was just "check the manual, search for that keyword" nothing more. Nothing justifies your aggressive sentences like:

I would have thought that would be the first you would do.

Or

But checking the documentation on basic game functions before posting a question saves everyone some time.

Any sane person who reads this comments would think this person wants to annoy someone and wants to make "people's court" in this forum. And I point out there is no reason to "make an example" in forum in front of all others just like some catholic school housemaster or hallway patrol. Sometimes we forget, we do a mistake. You don't need to poke it all around the forum. You could wrote more nice and short, or you could PM me about it.

But if you push and keep wanting devs and other people to do your work for, I'll push back too.

Again, no one, including devs, are forced to answer all questions, 100%. It would be great if anyone answers me, but I don't mind if no one answers me. I know my question was silly, so I don't care if no one answers. Did I ever complain about no one answers my questions in any place? No.
It is learning process. I would find myself the answer like you wrote, or someone will get the answer far later and I figure out in the future. But I don't push anyone, which includes you, to 100% answer my questions within an hour or something like that. Let's stop this. Right here. Right now.

So your approach is always let someone else do the work for you. At least you're transparent about it.

If you ever need an answer to any question I will be glad to help you. I am here all of the time, and I have no problem assisting anyone. No question is silly, or stupid. Feel free to send me a private message and I will help you. I usually write very detailed responses that I am sure will sufficiently answer your question. If not, send me another and I'll keep answering until you completely understand.

I don't mind helping you, or anyone else, at all.

Doug

ORIGINAL: thewood1
That is completely wrong.

Hmm, well you do answer a lot of questions around here providing a lot of useful information; even if sometimes it descends into ruffled feathers. So given that let me just say that with respect, I disagree.

The fact that you quoted several sections of the manual really puts the lie to your assertion. The first quote doesn't explain what a prosecution area is. You can maybe infer it from the second but it's not until the third piece you quoted, from page 298, labeled Version 1.04 in a containing section labeled "Command Update History" wherein the preamble section says "...much of this will not be of any concern", that you get a reasonably digestible description of what a prosecution zone is that provides more clue on why you might want to use one.

I do technical docs for software as part of my job (in part) and that I think entitles me to an opinion on this topic. I also understand that reasonable people can disagree. Your disagreement does not however invalidate my perception. I'd invite you to consider the view from my shoes -- I'd love to do that over a beer...I bet we'd have a lot of common ground to talk about...sadly the internet doesn't facilitate that very well.

So. My point is not to "prove you wrong or evil" or any such nonsense. Really what I'm trying to point out that the case for people being best served by starting with the documentation would be stronger if it were, as an example in this case specifically, a little better organized.

And I don't mean to be an empty critic: there's enough info in this thread to make a better manual section for patrol zones. Send me the source for the relevant mission editor section and I'll draft something up as a proposed replacement (free and with no strings).

The explanation is right there in black and white. In the section you would expect. It also doesn't stop you from reading further down. The manual isn't there just to read, but to search also. So even I agreed with your assertion, a couple more simple clicks on the search bar in the PDF would have given you the answer.

The point is...it is actually in the manual. If someone won't deign themselves to do a little homework for themselves and depend on asking find-able questions in the forum, they aren't going to last long in this game. Might was well catch that up front.

I also would suggest to not piecemeal it. Ask to help with the entire manual. There is already a community team on it.

But I can guarantee you that no matter how much effort and prose you put into it, this same guy wouldn't have read it.

ORIGINAL: thewood1

The explanation is right there in black and white. In the section you would expect.

No it isn't. But it's worth no more time to debate.

The point is...it is actually in the manual. If someone won't deign themselves to do a little homework for themselves and depend on asking find-able questions in the forum, they aren't going to last long in this game. Might was well catch that up front.

By that logic you should make it harder to find information in the manual because only the worthy and persistent should be able to find answers in there. [8|]

ORIGINAL: thewood1
So your approach is always let someone else do the work for you. At least you're transparent about it.

In which part of my writing implies anything about I let someone else do the work for me? Can you read? I wrote:

Again, no one, including devs, are forced to answer all questions, 100%. It would be great if anyone answers me, but I don't mind if no one answers me. I know my question was silly, so I don't care if no one answers. Did I ever complain about no one answers my questions in any place? No. It is learning process. I would find myself the answer like you wrote, or someone will get the answer far later and I figure out in the future. But I don't push anyone, which includes you, to 100% answer my questions within an hour or something like that.

How do you can understand this as "I let someone else do the work for me"? You or anyone or me can answer to any questions or not, it is our choice, not forced to answer. I never force someone to answer my question.

That is your imagination and false accusation. Don't assume all other people thinks like you. Are you in position to judge others in this forum? Such a mind numbing arrogance.

I will not gonna reply anything to you. What a waste of time.

@marksdoran Ignore him, nor worth it.

Gang, I read these forums every day....I just don't understand why Mr wood has to to such a Richard to posters most the time??

I thought Ben Franklin once said "if ya aint got anything good to say, don't waste time saying it"

I don't think it's helpful to resort to name calling. If you want to get people to look beyond their own perspective or reconsider the perception postings create in a flat medium like this then I'd suggest its important to debate the issue as fiercely as you like but keep in mind that it's extremely rare to run into someone who doesn't have good intentions. We're all here because we have a shared interest in this most excellent game.