Matrix Games Forums

Originally posted by denisonh
Not to sure about the mechanics of naval search, but I know that I will often move the TFs in seperate hexes well way from the battle area to mask my movement.

As I approach the engagment area, then I will concentrate them.

I have achieved surprise on opponents at least 3 times in my PBEM games. Total suprise twice, which may have been more of a function of my opponent's search aircraft (or lack there of).

No more than a 15 ship TF is a good rule that I follow. The manual makes it clear TFs "that consist of more than 15 ships suffer diminishing returns in effectiveness defending themselves against air attack and fighting in surface battles." I have no reason to believe otherwise.

As for the AA, a 15 ship TF will have better AA than a 10 ship TF, but if those 5 are DDs, how much better is it? (Later in the game the US AA gets better and has more capital ships, but initially, the DDs have low AA and there are fewer capital ships).

A TF with 2-3 CVs, 3-4 CA/CLs and 4-5 DDs has a good AA rating. The remaining CA/CLs are in surface combat TFs.

And as for CAP, absolutely no difference, as it is all combined in the hex.

Being harder to track down and harder to kill are important for the US early in SC#17 to survive. Smaller TFs are no longer necessary later in the game, but I still go with multiple CV TFs to minimize vulnerability.

And as a point of operation, I will often set the 2 CV TFs to follow the surface TF. Keeps them from doing the 1 hex advance and I only have to order one TF around..

Well I hope you dont include our game in that 'surprise' you achieved. You didnt surprise the CV task force.

You may or may not have surprised the surface combat I have that detail turned off. So I wont contest that.

Originally posted by Chiteng
Well I hope you dont include our game in that 'surprise' you achieved. You didnt surprise the CV task force.

You may or may not have surprised the surface combat I have that detail turned off. So I wont contest that.

Just curious, at what point did you spot my TFs?

I saw no spotting report until I was 3 hexes away.

Originally posted by denisonh
Just curious, at what point did you spot my TFs?

I saw no spotting report until I was 3 hexes away.

I have no idea, however the outcome didnt suggest surprise

I do not claim to know whether or not you suspected my location or intent.

I do know that I had two CV TFs and 2 surface TFs 13 hexes from your carrier group, and they were not spotted by any search aircraft (4 July 1942).

Since moving fast TFs return to detection level 0 after the 12 hour night impulse, they must be spotted to show during you planning turn. Without detection, they will not be there.

So unless you detected them by some other means (As no spots were seen on the replay), thier location and composition were not confirmed (no little enemy fleet icons).

The next turn (5 July1942), you spotted my CV TFs 3 hexes away.

When the first confirmed sighting of an enemy CV TF is 3 squares away, it is reasonable to suggest that there was some element of surprise.

Originally posted by denisonh
I do not claim to know whether or not you suspected my location or intent.

I do know that I had two CV TFs and 2 surface TFs 13 hexes from your carrier group, and they were not spotted by any search aircraft (4 July 1942).

Since moving fast TFs return to detection level 0 after the 12 hour night impulse, they must be spotted to show during you planning turn. Without detection, they will not be there.

So unless you detected them by some other means (As no spots were seen on the replay), thier location and composition were not confirmed (no little enemy fleet icons).

The next turn (5 July1942), you spotted my CV TFs 3 hexes away.

When the first confirmed sighting of an enemy CV TF is 3 squares away, it is reasonable to suggest that there was some element of surprise.

I cant say, I dont notice things like that. My CV had a mission,
to protect the landing. That is what they did. I myself fully expected an attack, what I did NOT know is that all flight
ops were halved in coastal waters.

As I said the results do not suggest that they were surprised.

Recon is important.

I pay a great deal of attention to it.

And I do not refer to the combat results, but the operational implications that are associated with having a multiple CV enemy TF appear for the first time 3 hexes away.

The fact you were unconcerned with my location or intent is not the issue, but how enemy CVs got that close without a confirmed siting.

Since the issue relates to structuring TFs, and many players try to achieve similiar results (anybody out there like to show up 3 hexes from the enemy CVs without being spotted prior?), I only observe that there may be a relationship to avoiding detection if the TF size is small enough.

Originally posted by denisonh
Recon is important.

I pay a great deal of attention to it.

And I do not refer to the combat results, but the operational implications that are associated with having a multiple CV enemy TF appear for the first time 3 hexes away.

The fact you were unconcerned with my location or intent is not the issue, but how enemy CVs got that close without a confirmed siting.

Since the issue relates to structuring TFs, and many players try to achieve similiar results (anybody out there like to show up 3 hexes from the enemy CVs without being spotted prior?), I only observe that there may be a relationship to avoiding detection if the TF size is small enough.

Well, I think that the 15 ship limit is silly. I think it is arbitrary.
I think that the limited flak capability of the Japs demands that the use all that they possibly can.

Originally posted by Oleg Mastruko
Yes but in real life there would be no "medieval" sieges of Noumea either. In real life Allies would pull all their vulnerable ships and transports to, say, Sydney, or Auckland, and there would be no new ships/materiel arriving to (besieged) Noumea to be slaughtered either.

So I think it is perfectly fair to "teleport" ships in "siege" situations. In regular situations I generally wait for flood damage to be repaired before I send ships back to Japan or PH.

O.

Exactly - I've had an IJN Super CV tf sitting within 5 hexes of Noumea twice (for 5 or 6 turns in a row each time). What sort of idiot in Pearl keeps sending transports and tankers into this sort of situation??????

I should be allowed to redirect reinforcements to Brisbane (sensible)- or at least veto their being sent (unrealistic though).