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RE: Upgrading the Units of a Minor
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:51 am
by Tulius Hostilius
ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo
General Slim, lol. Saw him on the history channel, but not for good things post-WW2. Did they remove the streets named after him?
Hehehe! The History Channel rarely talks about history. From some years ago it is more specialized in trivia and pseudo-history.
ORIGINAL: FOARP
Disagree that having all the slots filled is a bar on making Spain a major - it should be relatively easy for the developers simply just to add another slot. More of an issue in this system is the seeming requirement that each major has a "side" which it can only ever join. Also there's the game-play implications of having yet another major to manage.
When I said that is “a bar” was with the current game version and editor. Naturally developers can make almost “all” happened. It is a question of time and money.
ORIGINAL: FOARP
On the other side, well, Finland is a major power in WIE, and pretty much all of the reasons for this apply also to Spain in WAW: it is geographically separated from Germany so it makes no sense for German resources to be used in Spain or vice-versa, it is relatively powerful.
Historically Finland participated in the war. Spain didn’t.
RE: Upgrading the Units of a Minor
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:49 am
by Torplexed
ORIGINAL: FOARP
On the other side, well, Finland is a major power in WIE, and pretty much all of the reasons for this apply also to Spain in WAW: it is geographically separated from Germany so it makes no sense for German resources to be used in Spain or vice-versa, it is relatively powerful.
The manual for WIE describes Finland as a minor power. You can't play Finland alone by itself in that game like Germany or Italy.
It seems to me you would have to draw the major/minor line somewhere. If Spain is a major power, why can't Turkey or Sweden be major powers too? They had good sized military establishments. Heck, Brazil had a decent sized navy with a few battleships. I don't think this game is meant to be like Hearts of Iron where all nations are playable and you can try your hand at conquering the world playing Bhutan or Tibet.
I must confess I'm really not sure why India is counted as a playable nation though. She was pretty much just another colonial dominion of the British Empire like Canada or Australia, and reliant on Britain for her military kit.
RE: Upgrading the Units of a Minor
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:23 am
by Tulius Hostilius
ORIGINAL: Torplexed
ORIGINAL: FOARP
On the other side, well, Finland is a major power in WIE, and pretty much all of the reasons for this apply also to Spain in WAW: it is geographically separated from Germany so it makes no sense for German resources to be used in Spain or vice-versa, it is relatively powerful.
The manual for WIE describes Finland as a minor power. You can't play Finland alone by itself in that game like Germany or Italy.
It seems to me you would have to draw the major/minor line somewhere. If Spain is a major power, why can't Turkey or Sweden be major powers too? They had good sized military establishments. Heck, Brazil had a decent sized navy with a few battleships. I don't think this game is meant to be like Hearts of Iron where all nations are playable and you can try your hand at conquering the world playing Bhutan or Tibet.
I must confess I'm really not sure why India is counted as a playable nation though. She was pretty much just another colonial dominion of the British Empire like Canada or Australia, and reliant on Britain for her military kit.
Every game has its issues. I think that was a decision for game balance, but it bothers me a little, just as some parts of the British Empire that are perpetually Neutral in West Africa, since they aren’t worth of the diplomatic effort to bring them to the Allies (and much less to the Axis), such as Nigeria, Ghana, Sierra Leone and Gambia.
It also bothers me that Goa belongs to India, since it was Portuguese until 1961.
RE: Upgrading the Units of a Minor
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:32 pm
by Dalwin
At least, upgrading (and reinforcing) minors is more expensive and therefor less efficient than doing it for German (or UK) units. I assume German players always research at least 1 or 2 notches of production tech. That discount does not apply to minor units.
RE: Upgrading the Units of a Minor
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:35 pm
by Dalwin
ORIGINAL: Tulius Hostilius
ORIGINAL: Torplexed
ORIGINAL: FOARP
On the other side, well, Finland is a major power in WIE, and pretty much all of the reasons for this apply also to Spain in WAW: it is geographically separated from Germany so it makes no sense for German resources to be used in Spain or vice-versa, it is relatively powerful.
The manual for WIE describes Finland as a minor power. You can't play Finland alone by itself in that game like Germany or Italy.
It seems to me you would have to draw the major/minor line somewhere. If Spain is a major power, why can't Turkey or Sweden be major powers too? They had good sized military establishments. Heck, Brazil had a decent sized navy with a few battleships. I don't think this game is meant to be like Hearts of Iron where all nations are playable and you can try your hand at conquering the world playing Bhutan or Tibet.
I must confess I'm really not sure why India is counted as a playable nation though. She was pretty much just another colonial dominion of the British Empire like Canada or Australia, and reliant on Britain for her military kit.
Every game has its issues. I think that was a decision for game balance, but it bothers me a little, just as some parts of the British Empire that are perpetually Neutral in West Africa, since they aren’t worth of the diplomatic effort to bring them to the Allies (and much less to the Axis), such as Nigeria, Ghana, Sierra Leone and Gambia.
It also bothers me that Goa belongs to India, since it was Portuguese until 1961.
At the scale of the map, Goa is small enough that it should likely not even be represented. It is not like Hong Kong which belonged to one of the belligerents and was at least nominally defended. If Portugal had joined the Axis, India would have seized Goa very quickly with virtually no resistance. It not being shown as Portuguese is fine in this game.
RE: Upgrading the Units of a Minor
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:52 pm
by eightroomofelixir
Goa has a large natural harbor and an important port named Mormugao, which was one of the major export ports of colonial India and had seen actions in WWII (Operation Creek).
RE: Upgrading the Units of a Minor
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:08 pm
by Platoonist
Goa eventually became a haven for Axis agents. In the Portuguese colony of Macau in China the Japanese exerted considerable control through "advisors" whom the Portuguese administration were in no position to resist, and East Timor was occupied successively by the Australians and then the Japanese. You get the sense neither side respected Portuguese neutrality very much. [:D]
RE: Upgrading the Units of a Minor
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:38 pm
by Tulius Hostilius
ORIGINAL: Dalwin
ORIGINAL: Tulius Hostilius
ORIGINAL: Torplexed
The manual for WIE describes Finland as a minor power. You can't play Finland alone by itself in that game like Germany or Italy.
It seems to me you would have to draw the major/minor line somewhere. If Spain is a major power, why can't Turkey or Sweden be major powers too? They had good sized military establishments. Heck, Brazil had a decent sized navy with a few battleships. I don't think this game is meant to be like Hearts of Iron where all nations are playable and you can try your hand at conquering the world playing Bhutan or Tibet.
I must confess I'm really not sure why India is counted as a playable nation though. She was pretty much just another colonial dominion of the British Empire like Canada or Australia, and reliant on Britain for her military kit.
Every game has its issues. I think that was a decision for game balance, but it bothers me a little, just as some parts of the British Empire that are perpetually Neutral in West Africa, since they aren’t worth of the diplomatic effort to bring them to the Allies (and much less to the Axis), such as Nigeria, Ghana, Sierra Leone and Gambia.
It also bothers me that Goa belongs to India, since it was Portuguese until 1961.
At the scale of the map, Goa is small enough that it should likely not even be represented. It is not like Hong Kong which belonged to one of the belligerents and was at least nominally defended. If Portugal had joined the Axis, India would have seized Goa very quickly with virtually no resistance. It not being shown as Portuguese is fine in this game.
Indeed, but it was not British, or better of the British Raj. Other options could be considered, as another city. Portugal joinning the Axis would be quite a-historical.
ORIGINAL: Platoonist
Goa eventually became a haven for Axis agents. In the Portuguese colony of Macau in China the Japanese exerted considerable control through "advisors" whom the Portuguese administration were in no position to resist, and East Timor was occupied successively by the Australians and then the Japanese. You get the sense neither side respected Portuguese neutrality very much. [:D]
The Portuguese Timor was the only Portuguese territory that was invaded, by the Australians, when there was ship on the way to reinforce the Portuguese garrison (it wouldn’t make much difference, it was symbolic). There were spies in all the neutral countries. For instance, Lisbon was a paradise for spies, from both sides. As Goa, as you say. Later in the war the USA bombard Macau, but if I recall correctly, later Portugal received a compensation.
RE: Upgrading the Units of a Minor
Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 9:26 am
by FOARP
ORIGINAL: Dalwin
At the scale of the map, Goa is small enough that it should likely not even be represented. It is not like Hong Kong which belonged to one of the belligerents and was at least nominally defended. If Portugal had joined the Axis, India would have seized Goa very quickly with virtually no resistance. It not being shown as Portuguese is fine in this game.
I'm agnostic about most of the points raised here, but as a simple point of fact, Goa was/is more than 1,400 square miles in area, which makes it larger than e.g., Luxembourg, and comparable in size to e.g., the Cotentin peninsula. This doesn't mean it has to be represented on-map, but it is definitely not too small. Were it represented on-map, it would probably be a single hex with a town on it and a port adjacent to it.
RE: Upgrading the Units of a Minor
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 1:17 am
by Sovyetsky
ORIGINAL: ReinerAllen
Also, why is Spain considered a minor? It should be able to stand on its own (my humble opinion).
Comments are welcome.
Spain was a wreck after the civil war, there is a reason Franco didn't throw in his lot with Hitler.