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RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:49 am
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Leandros
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Why would they NOT be the exactly the same as the bomb load capacity? AFAIK the game does not make any abstractions for bomb bay size.
That is not unreasonable (except maybe for size), but what I am after is to know the number of mines dropped whether with full or reduced load, simply to keep track on what is in stock or not.
Also the size of the airfield needed. I have found that size 7 is OK, but 5 is not. I haven't been able to "check 6".
What about dropping altitude and pilot proficiency - does it influence on accuracy? Night-drops? Mark 13 is a free-fall mine.
What about own ships and these mines?
I cannot remember to have seen any of these questions mentioned in the manual. Correct me if I am wrong.
Fred
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When dropping mines I don't think there were many instances where you had to hit a narrow patch of water - you just mine the whole big bay. Accuracy is pretty irrelevant then - you have to rely on the enemy ships in accurately locating them the hard way. [:)]
The game has an attack profile that always has the plane go to drop altitude, like it does for torpedoes, so don't worry about altitude. The mines should be handled the same way as ship-laid mines vis-à-vis your own ships.
RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:37 am
by Leandros
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Been playing this damned game came out and never, EVER knew the Japanese could drop mines! Learn something every day...
Me, neither, but I got suspicious when my minesweepers started finding mines in patrolled ports without having observed any enemy ships. Nor did my nightly air patrols.
So, how to counter nightly enemy air mining - only with nightly fighter sweeps, I suppose - and frequent minesweeping?
Fred
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RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:09 am
by tolsdorff
ORIGINAL: Leandros
Me, neither, but I got suspicious when my minesweepers started finding mines in patrolled ports without having observed any enemy ships. Nor did my nightly air patrols.
So, how to counter nightly enemy air mining - only with nightly fighter sweeps, I suppose - and frequent minesweeping?
Fred
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Frequent minesweeping always helps. As allies, as you are probably aware of, you get so many ships capable of minesweeping that all ports can be covered with ease.
As mentioned in other posts, you apparently always get a message when and where the enemy airdrops mines. So at least, you always know where to sweep.
RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:54 am
by Leandros
ORIGINAL: tolsdorff
As mentioned in other posts, you apparently always get a message when and where the enemy airdrops mines. So at least, you always know where to sweep.
I cannot say I have noted any such messages. I may have overseen them or I am mistaken in that my opponent is air mining.
Fred
RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:00 pm
by Leandros
Oh, yes - there i was notified on own aerial minelaying - but no specification on number of mines dropped! I wonder, is the opposition notified, too? I haven't seen any such.
Fred
RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:08 am
by tolsdorff
ORIGINAL: Leandros
Oh, yes - there i was notified on own aerial minelaying - but no specification on number of mines dropped! I wonder, is the opposition notified, too? I haven't seen any such.
Fred
Apparently, as other posts in topics concerning aerial mining have indicated, everyone gets a notification. The lack of such messages might indicate that the mines you found were submarine delivered?
RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:54 pm
by Leandros
ORIGINAL: tolsdorff
Apparently, as other posts in topics concerning aerial mining have indicated, everyone gets a notification. The lack of such messages might indicate that the mines you found were submarine delivered?
Thank you, I also noted that enemy minesweepers immediately started sweeping after I had dropped some mines. Most should be cleared up, then.
Fred
RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:02 pm
by tolsdorff
ORIGINAL: Leandros
ORIGINAL: tolsdorff
Apparently, as other posts in topics concerning aerial mining have indicated, everyone gets a notification. The lack of such messages might indicate that the mines you found were submarine delivered?
Thank you, I also noted that enemy minesweepers immediately started sweeping after I had dropped some mines. Most should be cleared up, then.
Fred
That does not seem very effective then.
Throughout the years, my overall impression of aerial mining, mostly from this forum, from people describing their experience with regard to aerial mining, isn't really positive. No references, just a general impression that stuck. I therefor never really bothered with them.
Perhaps it is nothing more than an exercise in futility, akin to the Japanese midget subs.
RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:43 pm
by Leandros
Well, he must have minesweepers available...[;)]...The thing is, I suppose, to be persistent and to concentrate ones efforts.
Fred
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RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:06 pm
by RangerJoe
If you can drop the mines and then have a naval air attack in the same area . . . [:o]
It is a denial weapon. Many of the mines ended up on mud flats, others were observed being dropped, and the aircraft may have been seen/heard as well.
RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:43 pm
by Leandros
Removed
Fred
RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:01 pm
by Leandros
ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
If you can drop the mines and then have a naval air attack in the same area . . . [:o]
It is a denial weapon. Many of the mines ended up on mud flats, others were observed being dropped, and the aircraft may have been seen/heard as well.
Nothing wrong with denial weapons..[;)]..And I should think fre-fall mines, like the mk.13, are somewhat more accurate than those with parachute-descend.
It is not a bad thing if the mine dropping is discovered, creates a lot of extra work, enemy combat units are delayed or leave the port they would to like to rest in. Besides, minesweepers are known to have blown up during sweeping.
Of course, such operations should be executed during night, with all the problems the game creates for such missions. All allied pilots are amateurs.
Fred
RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:22 pm
by RangerJoe
Not just that, but if the enemy is running TFs through the shallow waters and through protected bases, the ships will not intentionally move that way and will take another, possibly and probably, an unplanned and unprotected route.
RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:36 am
by tolsdorff
Googled some more today about actual aerial mining. I find the topic quite interesting.
.
ORIGINAL: Leandros
Nothing wrong with denial weapons..[;)]..And I should think fre-fall mines, like the mk.13, are somewhat more accurate than those with parachute-descend.
It is not a bad thing if the mine dropping is discovered, creates a lot of extra work, enemy combat units are delayed or leave the port they would to like to rest in. Besides, minesweepers are known to have blown up during sweeping.
Fred
Besides operation starvation, there are some other examples of aerial mining used in the denial role as well:
...On August 10, 1944, B-29s of the 462nd Bomb Group thundered down the Moesi River only 500
feet above the water, strafed Japanese ships and unleashed a cargo of mines. The "Hellbirds," on the
longest mission of the war--4,000 miles and almost nineteen hours--sank three ships, damaged two more
and closed the approach to the refinery at Palembang, Sumatra for a month...
From this
study. First time I heard of a B-29 strafing mission.
More from the same source :
...TBFs of Carrier Task Force 58 made the first American carrier-based minelaying at Palau on
March 30-31. 1944. They trapped thirty-two ships inside the atoll by mining its passages, allowing
aircraft to sink twenty-three with bombs and torpedoes and damage the rest. That action, and additional
mining, led the Japanese to abandon Palau as a base...
...Elsewhere, at General Claire Chennault/s insistence, Fourteenth Air Force aircraft laid mines
along the Yangtze River between October 1944 and May 1945. The effect was to block Japanese
steamers from supplying troops fighting inland. The results so pleased Chennault that he remarked, "The
aerial mine has done more to stop the Japanese drive north from Canton than any other weapon."...
It seems, apparently contrary to how it is modelled in the game, that the aerial mine was a rather succesful weapon during the war.
RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:02 am
by Leandros
Cool, tks for posting!
Fred
RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:44 am
by RangerJoe
It was successful but in the game, mines do not work in the rivers. It is probably difficult to model everything perfectly if at all.
RE: Type 3 IJN mine
Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:26 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
It was successful but in the game, mines do not work in the rivers. It is probably difficult to model everything perfectly if at all.
I think it was a game balance decision, for the same reason the developers kept the mine production levels low. They did not want the game to become "Mines in the Pacific". Aerial mining would greatly favour the Allies since the Japanese air force could only reach a few Allied ports that have cities while the Allies will eventually be able to fly over every major IJ city.