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RE: Valor, Victory & Me
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:59 pm
by rico21
The number of tactical wargames that I have played regularly for years can be counted with the fingers of one hand.
RE: Valor, Victory & Me
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:17 pm
by wodin
ORIGINAL: rico21
The number of tactical wargames that I have played regularly for years can be counted with the fingers of one hand.
For me it's four (Squad Battles (for me no top down, 2D turn based tactical wargame does it better, yet SB has areas for improvement), TSS games, Combat Missionx2 games and Graviteam Tactics Muis Front and DLC)! Reason is because of what I've highlighted. Considering there are a fair amount out there, they are all doing pretty much the same thing. I'm looking forward to Second Front, Steel Tigers and Burden of Command, lets see how they measure up. All others that have hit my radar have nothing that stands out.
The developer talks about simplifying, yet my issue is that most are already to simple and abstract. The lower the scale the less abstraction there should be. We have the LnL games series or Company of Heroes etc already out there doing exactly this. It's the lack of indepth and detailed tactical games that needs addressing esp in the 2D top down format. Why I put SB top. It considers each individual soldier and his weapon, no squad abstracted together. Casualties at the man scale so not the abstract full squad half squad mechanic. As I said I think the lower the scale the less abstraction should be used.
RE: Valor, Victory & Me
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:41 pm
by ncc1701e
ORIGINAL: wodin
For me it's four (Squad Battles (for me no top down, 2D turn based tactical wargame does it better, yet SB has areas for improvement), TSS games, Combat Missionx2 games and Graviteam Tactics Muis Front and DLC)! Reason is because of what I've highlighted. Considering there are a fair amount out there, they are all doing pretty much the same thing. I'm looking forward to Second Front, Steel Tigers and Burden of Command, lets see how they measure up. All others that have hit my radar have nothing that stands out.
The developer talks about simplifying, yet my issue is that most are already to simple and abstract. The lower the scale the less abstraction there should be. We have the LnL games series or Company of Heroes etc already out there doing exactly this. It's the lack of indepth and detailed tactical games that needs addressing esp in the 2D top down format. Why I put SB top. It considers each individual soldier and his weapon, no squad abstracted together. Casualties at the man scale so not the abstract full squad half squad mechanic. As I said I think the lower the scale the less abstraction should be used.
Squad Battles is just horrible to look at. And, I am not sure Steel Tigers will have the management of each individual soldier and his weapon.
I miss something like Jagged Alliance...
RE: Valor, Victory & Me
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:46 pm
by wodin
ORIGINAL: ncc1701e
ORIGINAL: wodin
For me it's four (Squad Battles (for me no top down, 2D turn based tactical wargame does it better, yet SB has areas for improvement), TSS games, Combat Missionx2 games and Graviteam Tactics Muis Front and DLC)! Reason is because of what I've highlighted. Considering there are a fair amount out there, they are all doing pretty much the same thing. I'm looking forward to Second Front, Steel Tigers and Burden of Command, lets see how they measure up. All others that have hit my radar have nothing that stands out.
The developer talks about simplifying, yet my issue is that most are already to simple and abstract. The lower the scale the less abstraction there should be. We have the LnL games series or Company of Heroes etc already out there doing exactly this. It's the lack of indepth and detailed tactical games that needs addressing esp in the 2D top down format. Why I put SB top. It considers each individual soldier and his weapon, no squad abstracted together. Casualties at the man scale so not the abstract full squad half squad mechanic. As I said I think the lower the scale the less abstraction should be used.
Squad Battles is just horrible to look at. And, I am not sure Steel Tigers will have the management of each individual soldier and his weapon.
I miss something like Jagged Alliance...
Mods out there to help with that, plus it's all about the gameplay.
RE: Valor, Victory & Me
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:18 pm
by z1812
ORIGINAL: wodin
Why oh why do developers of tactical wargames keep leaving out the features missing from all previous similar games that players keep asking for, like multi level buildings. I don't get it. If I was going to all that trouble and hard work of developing a new tactical wargame I'd make sure it has all those features that are always requested and always missing. That way I know the game will stand out from the crowd and offer players features\mechanics missing from all previous similar games. Otherwise why make a game that's like all the previous ones. Seems alot of hardwork for nothing new.
Lock and Load Tactical Digital has multi-story buildings. Movement is intuitive. With your unit in a building hex, you click on a stair icon, up/down, which moves your unit up or down.
RE: Valor, Victory & Me
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:05 pm
by wodin
ORIGINAL: z1812
ORIGINAL: wodin
Why oh why do developers of tactical wargames keep leaving out the features missing from all previous similar games that players keep asking for, like multi level buildings. I don't get it. If I was going to all that trouble and hard work of developing a new tactical wargame I'd make sure it has all those features that are always requested and always missing. That way I know the game will stand out from the crowd and offer players features\mechanics missing from all previous similar games. Otherwise why make a game that's like all the previous ones. Seems alot of hardwork for nothing new.
Lock and Load Tactical Digital has multi-story buildings. Movement is intuitive. With your unit in a building hex, you click on a stair icon, up/down, which moves your unit up or down.
My big gripe I had with LnL Stalingrad was the spotting and shooting mechanic. How you couldn't do recon by fire and had to respot every turn. Hated it. Esp as Germans used recon by fire ALOT during Stalingrad city fighting. Plus full squad/half squad abstraction really not keen.
RE: Valor, Victory & Me
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:30 pm
by RangerJoe
How could there be an Arnhem scenario without multilevel building? How else are the engineers going to drop plastic explosive charges down the top hatch of a tank without leaving the building?
RE: Valor, Victory & Me
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:03 pm
by MrsWargamer
Valor and Victor is likely a safe bet I will purchase. But it will be one of my minor expense expectations.
I'm waiting on Second Front for my Squad Leader fix though. From what I have seen, I'll gladly drop a 100 dollar bill on it casually.
Valour and Victor seems like an ok game, but anything much past 20 bucks become increasingly too much to ask.
I tend to consider wargames as being 5, 20, 60, and 100+ categories. 5 being something I can play on a tablet. 20 being something that might best be played on a computer, but very near to a video game level of complexity, 60 for what I call mainstream wargames, and 100+ reserved for the hardcore purchases such as Gary's upcoming War in the East 2.
RE: Valor, Victory & Me
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:53 pm
by z1812
ORIGINAL: wodin
ORIGINAL: z1812
ORIGINAL: wodin
Why oh why do developers of tactical wargames keep leaving out the features missing from all previous similar games that players keep asking for, like multi level buildings. I don't get it. If I was going to all that trouble and hard work of developing a new tactical wargame I'd make sure it has all those features that are always requested and always missing. That way I know the game will stand out from the crowd and offer players features\mechanics missing from all previous similar games. Otherwise why make a game that's like all the previous ones. Seems alot of hardwork for nothing new.
Lock and Load Tactical Digital has multi-story buildings. Movement is intuitive. With your unit in a building hex, you click on a stair icon, up/down, which moves your unit up or down.
My big gripe I had with LnL Stalingrad was the spotting and shooting mechanic. How you couldn't do recon by fire and had to respot every turn. Hated it. Esp as Germans used recon by fire ALOT during Stalingrad city fighting. Plus full squad/half squad abstraction really not keen.
I am not talking about LNL Stalingrad. Look for "Lock and Load Tactical Digital". It is a completely different game.
RE: Valor, Victory & Me
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:58 pm
by wodin
I thought they'd be very similar both being conversions of the LnL boardgames.
RE: Valor, Victory & Me
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:59 pm
by Eambar
ORIGINAL: z1812
ORIGINAL: wodin
ORIGINAL: z1812
Lock and Load Tactical Digital has multi-story buildings. Movement is intuitive. With your unit in a building hex, you click on a stair icon, up/down, which moves your unit up or down.
My big gripe I had with LnL Stalingrad was the spotting and shooting mechanic. How you couldn't do recon by fire and had to respot every turn. Hated it. Esp as Germans used recon by fire ALOT during Stalingrad city fighting. Plus full squad/half squad abstraction really not keen.
I am not talking about LNL Stalingrad. Look for "Lock and Load Tactical Digital". It is a completely different game.
It is indeed, and as I mentioned above, it's my favourite of the three LnL games. Also my favourite of all top-down 2D tactical games.
With the different scenario packs, it's also the most expensive. You can pick up the base game for about $5 on sale (on Steam) and play with it. If you like the system and you can buy the rest as DLC. I think I picked them all up for about $40 AUD on sale.
There are only four wargames I play consistently (ie every week) and unfortunately a top-down 2d Tactical is not among them (they are WiTE, WiTP-AE, Command Ops 2 and CMO). I would like to find that top down 2D game that scratches my
Squad Leader itch (as
Squad Leader and all of its variants look down at me from their shelf...)
RE: Valor, Victory & Me
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:10 am
by rico21