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Entente Turn 2:

Yudenich and Brusilov take command of the attack on Lutsk...with 8 corps and 1 cavalry unit. Because of the 2nd turn Montenegro surrender buff...they fail to retake Lutsk!

Before this exploit was discovered, anyone who attempted a Russia First, even with Germans here, would get rolled by me. I was always happy when they pulled one..until now.

Entente Turn 2:

The German X Corp in Lutsk, unentrenched, withstood 9 attacks by Russia's two best generals. The stars represented the Russian units involved in the counter attack.

Entente Turn 2 Western Front:

France stands put as the combat predictor on potential counter attacks would spell disaster. The UK is being triggered by German vessels in the North Sea...but quite a few German ships are spotted in the Baltic.

Turn 3, the maximum boost is here and the Kaiser is REALLY pissed about the Russian attack on East Prussia.

General: Mein Kaiser, what shall we attack in our Vergeltungsschlag?

Kaiser: EVERYTHING!

German troops: And they shall know no fear!*



*In case there are other Warhammer 40k fans among you: I know that the slogan and the chapter don't match, but the Black Templars are more german themed and let's be honest just waaaay cooler than the Smurf Marines.

Taking a nose too much of the good stuff captured in Cetinje, the german commander of the western front not only forgets that the Schlieffenplan was canned, he also seems to see his men double and orders an all out attack on France. Unfortunatelly for the frogeaters his men are even more high. France is down 3 corps and one Nancy (3 corps total, not this turn)

In the east the Russians throw everything they have against Lutsk, but to no avail. Asked about his supply status the local german commander replies that he has unfortunatelly run out of Russians. Seriously OldCrow, how many men did you just loose? I was so shocked that I lost count. Were your odds that abyssmal and you attacked nevertheless or was that extreme rng?
Generaly Russian losses are skyrocketing across the board, including the first General. However I think it was only one of the crappy ones and there won't be much demand for command capacity anyway soon

In Poland troops are closing in on the juicy targets. Sensing that the end of Russian oppression is near, the Polish have risen up under General Pilsudski.

And in the north Brest-Litowsk has fallen.

On the Balkans CP forces smashed through the Pec-Nish line.

PS: I could hit myself. Could have taken Nish this turn, had I played it a bit smarter.

ORIGINAL: Bavre

"Taking a nose too much of the good stuff captured in Cetinje,"

Well....the nose knows, yes?

Entente Turn 3: Serbia

This speaks for its self.

Unfortunately, I edited over the screen shot of the Eastern Front. Bavre can pull his next turn 4 and document the rest. The image uploaded speaks for itself. I'm done with this. Its going to take a Major Fix to correct this Montenegro Gambit Exploit.

>> pm mssg copy to Bavre:

>Go ahead and do your turn and document it if you want. This game is big time broken as it is now. I put out a half a dozen proposals to fix this. What ever they decide...It has to be MAJOR regarding Cetinje. As far as I can see...that town needs to be a fortress with a corp in it..plus snipping of the railroad like I described..plus a second capital. I have no interest in proposing fixes or testing on my own or in a MP anymore.

Thanks though for your time, we make great AAR'S and perhaps when this is resolved we can do an MP with SC-WW1 or one of the other titles.

cheers O7, Old Crow

Great read guys!

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

Unfortunately, I edited over the screen shot of the Eastern Front. Bavre can pull his next turn 4 and document the rest. The image uploaded speaks for itself. I'm done with this. Its going to take a Major Fix to correct this Montenegro Gambit Exploit.

>> pm mssg copy to Bavre:

>Go ahead and do your turn and document it if you want. This game is big time broken as it is now. I put out a half a dozen proposals to fix this. What ever they decide...It has to be MAJOR regarding Cetinje. As far as I can see...that town needs to be a fortress with a corp in it..plus snipping of the railroad like I described..plus a second capital. I have no interest in proposing fixes or testing on my own or in a MP anymore.

Thanks though for your time, we make great AAR'S and perhaps when this is resolved we can do an MP with SC-WW1 or one of the other titles.

cheers O7, Old Crow

Nope, works perfectly fine on my end [:D]

Seriously though, rolling over someone with 10 times your game hours should not be possible like that.
Had a quick peak into turn 4:
Serbia is dead (and I mean literally dead), Russia lost Poland and almost half its army is either dead or encircled. Bulgaria is almost in.
And as I said CP had horrible rng in round one plus I made quite a few big mistakes in rounds 2 and 3. As incredible as it sounds, this could have gone a lot better for CP.

Nevertheless, that really was a fun romp!

ORIGINAL: Bavre

Nevertheless, that really was a fun romp!

Hmmmm....fun romp you say? [:D]

For me, it was instructive and illuminated very well in two tests that the Montenegro Gambit done on Turns 1 and 2 is no gambit...but an eXploit.

With that said...I really enjoyed having a test partner like you, Bavre! There was humor mixed with hardcore play here and the first test in our dispatches. Not dry at all haha.

Hope Bill and Hubert have seen this...would be interesting to hear what their opinions on this would be with this finale.

Btw, I knew fully well that taking the Entente side in these two tests would result in me putting my head into a noose..and I didn't have a problem with that. The problem was there was no way to get out of the thing after it was fitted on...which is fun if there's a possibility to do so. As things stand atm..I can honestly see no way out of it. [:)]

Cheers!

Man, OCB, hats off to your patience, you took 2 crappy beatings for the MODS to understand the game loopholes. [&o]

P.S: It is not really Bavre's fault, he exploited a loophole which needs to be purged with that Rail removal change.

ORIGINAL: shri

P.S: It is not really Bavre's fault, he exploited a loophole which needs to be purged with that Rail removal change.

Oh..I don't blame Bavre for anything. Him and I discussed how we would proceed to expose the 1st and 2nd Turn 'Montenegro Gambit' as an eXploit.

We both assumed it was so...but it required a test...the second one cinched both our assumptions into fact.

The only criteria was 'no holds barred'..and to our best ability as if it was the first 4 turns of a whole campaign as a matter of fact. (So there were other things happening like research and naval shenanigans).

Schelliefen or Russia First was up to Bavre...but Serbia was definitely on the table. There was no discussion privately between us during the test to skew the results.

Thanks though Shri for posting your sentiments! [8D]

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

ORIGINAL: shri

P.S: It is not really Bavre's fault, he exploited a loophole which needs to be purged with that Rail removal change.

Oh..I don't blame Bavre for anything. Him and I discussed how we would proceed to expose the 1st and 2nd Turn 'Montenegro Gambit' as an eXploit.

We both assumed it was so...but it required a test...the second one cinched both our assumptions into fact.

The only criteria was 'no holds barred'..and to our best ability as if it was the first 4 turns of a whole campaign as a matter of fact. (So there were other things happening like research and naval shenanigans).

Schelliefen or Russia First was up to Bavre...but Serbia was definitely on the table. There was no discussion privately between us during the test to skew the results.

Thanks though Shri for posting your sentiments! [8D]

Yes, this was 100% for science. I tried to get the maximum out of the exploit while OldCrow tried to contain the fallout. No holds barred for both sides to showcase the extent of this.

Need more pics. I would be interested to see more screenshots of exactly what units were where in Russia and when.

And is this giant Poland attack made possible because of Montenegro's surrender boosting morale, or is it totally possible even while ignoring Montenegro? I assume that if the Russians can hold Lutsk then they should be okay. I didn't realize it was possible to brute force a capture of that rail town.

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

Need more pics. I would be interested to see more screenshots of exactly what units were where in Russia and when.

And is this giant Poland attack made possible because of Montenegro's surrender boosting morale, or is it totally possible even while ignoring Montenegro? I assume that if the Russians can hold Lutsk then they should be okay. I didn't realize it was possible to brute force a capture of that rail town.

Unfortunately, those files for the second test were mislabeled by me and I thought I was deleting the First test.

The first test has better image documentation. In the first test...Bavre attacked Lutsk with AH troops. Even with the Luxembourg and the Montenegro surrender buffs going, I was able to counter attack and take back Lutsk and kill two of his AH corps there, and a German one in a swamp outside Wilno...and even break through to the Carpathian Passes at the Tartar Gates. We probably should of continued that one further btw.

The Second test was different in that Bavre used Germans on the attack on Lutsk forthwith. Now this is also a standard Russian First variation..and I have used it too...but only with the Luxemburg surrender buff. In test Two, we found that adding the Montenegro surrender buff changed everything. I attacked a 9 strength unentrenched German corp sitting on Lutsk with 8 Inf corps, and 1 Cavalry corp..all fully supplied..some prepared..and All under Yedinich HQ7 and Brusilov's HQ6 command. Even with some bad rolls I got with 9 attacks, I was only able to bring that German corp down to 1 point. If I had concentrated on AH units, I could have gotten better attack odds..but they where not in Lutsk! That image is on this the Second Test and should speak volumes.

Like I said previously, the giant Poland attack Bavre did is one of a few standard Russia First stratagems. Early last year, in a previous version of this excellent game, the Germans could get cavalry into Brestlitovsk..they fixed that somewhat (but I think it should be slightly stronger..but that is not relevant here)by placing 2 garrison units in Brestlitovsk and Bialystok. All the other moves Bavre did are standard issue openers for a successful (in time) Russia First strategy: Pinching and isolating Poland at Lutsk and Brestlitovsk.

The conclusion I have is that the Turn 2 Montenegro Surrender and the subsequent buff to the CP wrecks the early phase tempo of the game. Forget about unhistorical arguments. The fact is that in my opinion, and one held by many others, is whats happening here is not a gambit, but an eXploit. I invite anyone else to take the time, document and give this test a whirl to prove that this eXploit conclusion is wrong. Its quite possible that I personally was not up to the task of conducting the Entente side in the most optimal way. To be scientific about this whole issue..I nominate a Third Montenegro 'Gambit' test with other testers if there are doubts about this.