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I found UpFront distance mechanics abit mind boggling..

Canvas Eagles WW1 game is up there aswell.

ORIGINAL: Neilster

World in Flames.

By the time my friend and I had set up Global War, we'd generally be knackered and take a break for a few beers. We'd play, but as we were beginners, we were slow. Eventually my girlfriend would get sick of all the maps and charts set up and we'd put it away.

Matrix World in Flames is radically faster to play. There's movement on the AI front too, for those not in the know. Steve is starting with the Barbarossa scenario but plenty of groundwork has been done by expert players for everything up to Global War.

Nice to hear. I said that for the gamers who want the AI.
Myself, my only barrier to purchasing a wargame is often, no hot seat equals no chance for me to play me.
Not that I WANT to be stuck playing me vs me, but at least I'm as good as me

Well i would say War in the Pacific 2nd Edition by DG, was the most expensive board game i ever bought, got this one from ebay for 250 USD, was opened, but the counters are brand new, nothing was missing. The retail value for that board is 450+ USD.

hands down "Fields of Fire" but i keep playing it...

I paid $299 for Total War (Waste) from HMS who took over GRD (was GDW) and 24 years latter I still have not received my copy.

The most I paid for a board war game at one time was $325 for a used copy of SPI's CFNA. Sold it for $400.

My ASL collection is roughly worth about 4k I think. I have most items from 1985 to 2015. Both official and 3rd Party. Mostly, not all of them.

Assault is a pretty complex game, so was Up Front in some ways. But to me the most complex were the air games. Battleline's Airforce, Avalon Hill's Air Force 1980, and SPI's Air War: Tactical Modern Combat were all to complex for me.

From Air Force manual:

An aircraft which ends the Game-Turn in a non-Level Bank attitude must loose 100 feet of altitude unless it performed a non-banking maneuver during that Game-Turn. This altitude loss is determined during the Status Determination Phase following the plot of the non maneuvering banked aircraft, and affects its next turn's altitude.

The Deflection Modifier
This modifier is used to figure the effect of deflection. To determine the Deflection Modifier, figure the difference of the clock positions of the opposing aircraft relative to each other. Add the modifier shown for the resulting difference to the total Hit Table Modifiers. Ad one more if the firing aircraft currently meets Advantage Requirements.

SPI's Air War

[4.5] THE MOVEMENT, THROTTLE, AND ENGERY POINTS TRACK OF THE AIRCRAFT AND MISSLE CONTROL DISPLAY
[4.51] The Movement, Throttle, and Engery Points Track carries three aircraft control markers: The Movement Allowance marker; the Throttle Setting marker; and the Engergy Point marker.

or

[8.55] Fade-Back Deceleration
As indicated in the rules for Diving (10.4), an aircraft that pulls out of a dive has its Movement Allowance reduced to its Throttle Setting immediately, and does not undergo "Creep Deceleration" in the same way that aircraft pulling out of climbs undergo Creeping acceleration. However, an aircraft that pulls out of a dive may, on the turn that it enters Level Flight execute fade-back deceleration; this means that, for this Game-Turn only, the aircraft's Movement Allowance is only decreased by one point, rather than to the aircraft's Throttle Setting. On the next Game-Turn, the aircraft must decrease its Movement Allowance to its Throttle Setting; fade-back deceleration may only be executed on the Game-Turn that an aircraft pulls out of a dive.

ORIGINAL: Zovs
[8.55] Fade-Back Deceleration
As indicated in the rules for Diving (10.4), an aircraft that pulls out of a dive has its Movement Allowance reduced to its Throttle Setting immediately, and does not undergo "Creep Deceleration" in the same way that aircraft pulling out of climbs undergo Creeping acceleration. However, an aircraft that pulls out of a dive may, on the turn that it enters Level Flight execute fade-back deceleration; this means that, for this Game-Turn only, the aircraft's Movement Allowance is only decreased by one point, rather than to the aircraft's Throttle Setting. On the next Game-Turn, the aircraft must decrease its Movement Allowance to its Throttle Setting; fade-back deceleration may only be executed on the Game-Turn that an aircraft pulls out of a dive.

[X(] [&:]

I'll pass!

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Zovs
[8.55] Fade-Back Deceleration
As indicated in the rules for Diving (10.4), an aircraft that pulls out of a dive has its Movement Allowance reduced to its Throttle Setting immediately, and does not undergo "Creep Deceleration" in the same way that aircraft pulling out of climbs undergo Creeping acceleration. However, an aircraft that pulls out of a dive may, on the turn that it enters Level Flight execute fade-back deceleration; this means that, for this Game-Turn only, the aircraft's Movement Allowance is only decreased by one point, rather than to the aircraft's Throttle Setting. On the next Game-Turn, the aircraft must decrease its Movement Allowance to its Throttle Setting; fade-back deceleration may only be executed on the Game-Turn that an aircraft pulls out of a dive.

[X(] [&:]

I'll pass!

At least they are using the full terminology. The average paragraph in ASL says:

"If your CFV moves using HW movement after BUF from a COOT HS, then..."

Somehow ASLers consider this "a feature".

Air Force was not very complex by itself (my group used to play with 4-6 planes per player), but the rules could have been written better.

ORIGINAL: Zovs

[8.55] Fade-Back Deceleration
As indicated in the rules for Diving (10.4), an aircraft that pulls out of a dive has its Movement Allowance reduced to its Throttle Setting immediately, and does not undergo "Creep Deceleration" in the same way that aircraft pulling out of climbs undergo Creeping acceleration. However, an aircraft that pulls out of a dive may, on the turn that it enters Level Flight execute fade-back deceleration; this means that, for this Game-Turn only, the aircraft's Movement Allowance is only decreased by one point, rather than to the aircraft's Throttle Setting. On the next Game-Turn, the aircraft must decrease its Movement Allowance to its Throttle Setting; fade-back deceleration may only be executed on the Game-Turn that an aircraft pulls out of a dive.

This is the reason I still have nightmares about this game [:D].

I have translated legal contracts and tender specifications with far less complex wording than the average SPI rulebook [:D]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

From Air Force manual:

An aircraft which ends the Game-Turn in a non-Level Bank attitude must loose 100 feet of altitude unless it performed a non-banking maneuver during that Game-Turn. This altitude loss is determined during the Status Determination Phase following the plot of the non maneuvering banked aircraft, and affects its next turn's altitude.

The Deflection Modifier
This modifier is used to figure the effect of deflection. To determine the Deflection Modifier, figure the difference of the clock positions of the opposing aircraft relative to each other. Add the modifier shown for the resulting difference to the total Hit Table Modifiers. Ad one more if the firing aircraft currently meets Advantage Requirements.

SPI's Air War

[4.5] THE MOVEMENT, THROTTLE, AND ENGERY POINTS TRACK OF THE AIRCRAFT AND MISSLE CONTROL DISPLAY
[4.51] The Movement, Throttle, and Engery Points Track carries three aircraft control markers: The Movement Allowance marker; the Throttle Setting marker; and the Engergy Point marker.

or

[8.55] Fade-Back Deceleration
As indicated in the rules for Diving (10.4), an aircraft that pulls out of a dive has its Movement Allowance reduced to its Throttle Setting immediately, and does not undergo "Creep Deceleration" in the same way that aircraft pulling out of climbs undergo Creeping acceleration. However, an aircraft that pulls out of a dive may, on the turn that it enters Level Flight execute fade-back deceleration; this means that, for this Game-Turn only, the aircraft's Movement Allowance is only decreased by one point, rather than to the aircraft's Throttle Setting. On the next Game-Turn, the aircraft must decrease its Movement Allowance to its Throttle Setting; fade-back deceleration may only be executed on the Game-Turn that an aircraft pulls out of a dive.

These kinds of games just beg for some kind of a series of training scenarios that would focus on learning these rules one by one or something.

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
These kinds of games just beg for some kind of a series of training scenarios that would focus on learning these rules one by one or something.

I always suspected that J.D. Webster wrote his "Air Superiority" rules by looking at these games as an example of what not to do.

Phase Line Smash, a solitaire game of the 1991 Gulf War. The rules for the AI are longer than the rules for the player. I gave up after a few attempts when I realized that every game was going to play out very similarly. All that rulebook flipping for an unrewarding and samey experience. I switched to more streamlined games after that.


I read a quote from Frank Chadwick- "I believe complicated games remain popular because they admired rather than played, and when played are usually played solitaire"

ORIGINAL: Ridcully70
I read a quote from Frank Chadwick- "I believe complicated games remain popular because they admired rather than played, and when played are usually played solitaire"

That man was a genius.

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Zovs
[8.55] Fade-Back Deceleration
As indicated in the rules for Diving (10.4), an aircraft that pulls out of a dive has its Movement Allowance reduced to its Throttle Setting immediately, and does not undergo "Creep Deceleration" in the same way that aircraft pulling out of climbs undergo Creeping acceleration. However, an aircraft that pulls out of a dive may, on the turn that it enters Level Flight execute fade-back deceleration; this means that, for this Game-Turn only, the aircraft's Movement Allowance is only decreased by one point, rather than to the aircraft's Throttle Setting. On the next Game-Turn, the aircraft must decrease its Movement Allowance to its Throttle Setting; fade-back deceleration may only be executed on the Game-Turn that an aircraft pulls out of a dive.

[X(] [&:]

I'll pass!

At least they are using the full terminology. The average paragraph in ASL says:

"If your CFV moves using HW movement after BUF from a COOT HS, then..."

Somehow ASLers consider this "a feature".

LOL, yeah the good old FFMO and FFNAM with the dreaded DRM that is why we AM our MMC and dm our HMG/MMG if we are not AM and using DT with a SMC out of LOS of KEU even if we get CX its much better then a 1MC or worse a KIA with RS not going your way.

Here is a nifty one (sounds more complex then it is, sort of:

From the C1. OB Art PA:

Is SR or FFE:2 on board?
Yes -> Go to the SR or FFE:2 column.
No -> Chit draw
Chit draw:
Red -> No Access
Black -> Is non-NOBA FFE:C on Board?
Yes -> Go to FFE:C column
No -> Remove an SR or FFE:C. Place AR.
Does Observer have LOS to a Location in AR hex?
No -> Access Lost. Remove AR.
Yes -> If there are enemy units in or adjacent to the AR hex, are all of them unknown to the Observer?
Yes -> Extra Chit Draw
Extra Chit Draw
Red -> access Lost. Remove AR.
Black -> Is AR in a Pre-Registered hex of its Battery (or directed by Shipboard Observer) and you wish to place FFE:1?
etc..

And lets not forgot that HD NA for AEC, I always forgot that one.

[Deleted by Admins]

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69



I always suspected that J.D. Webster wrote his "Air Superiority" rules by looking at these games as an example of what not to do.

100% agree. As mind numbingly bad as SPI's Air War rules were, Air Superiority was quite playable and I enjoyed it for many years.

ORIGINAL: Zovs

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

ORIGINAL: 76mm


[X(] [&:]

I'll pass!

At least they are using the full terminology. The average paragraph in ASL says:

"If your CFV moves using HW movement after BUF from a COOT HS, then..."

Somehow ASLers consider this "a feature".

LOL, yeah the good old FFMO and FFNAM with the dreaded DRM that is why we AM our MMC and dm our HMG/MMG if we are not AM and using DT with a SMC out of LOS of KEU even if we get CX its much better then a 1MC or worse a KIA with RS not going your way.

Here is a nifty one (sounds more complex then it is, sort of:

From the C1. OB Art PA:

Is SR or FFE:2 on board?
Yes -> Go to the SR or FFE:2 column.
No -> Chit draw
Chit draw:
Red -> No Access
Black -> Is non-NOBA FFE:C on Board?
Yes -> Go to FFE:C column
No -> Remove an SR or FFE:C. Place AR.
Does Observer have LOS to a Location in AR hex?
No -> Access Lost. Remove AR.
Yes -> If there are enemy units in or adjacent to the AR hex, are all of them unknown to the Observer?
Yes -> Extra Chit Draw
Extra Chit Draw
Red -> access Lost. Remove AR.
Black -> Is AR in a Pre-Registered hex of its Battery (or directed by Shipboard Observer) and you wish to place FFE:1?
etc..

And lets not forgot that HD NA for AEC, I always forgot that one.

How about the colonel who wanted a vehicle to report to his location out in the field. The colonel was wait, and waiting, and waiting . . .

So he called the vehicle back and asked what the delay was. The driver of said vehicle called back and stated that they were waiting for a Charlie Charlie Tango. Needless to say, the colonel was confused and probably could have been mistaken for a butterbar!

Campaign for North Africa by SPI. Spent many hours lovingly reading the rules, gazing at the map, fiddling with the counters....sigh. But I never came close to playing it, lol.

Still, I kept the game and have the chunky box containing all of its goodies ... every now and then, I take it out of the closet and say hello, for old time's sake.

SPI's Airwar was complex, all that coefficent, point decimal $hit was head banging, but great..it worked..
But SPI's 'Campaign for North Africa' meh..
Read the rules and all the data stuff, beautiful map and counters, but never punched out the counters..
Its now a collectable on ebay.
SPI's 'Desert Fox' filled the gap after that..

Fields of Fire...a amazing game though

BattleTech