Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

What's with fascination about Waffen-SS?

Read book of Otto Carius Tigers in Mud, for perspective.

What's the "fascination"-How about they elongated the war by 9 months?

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

What's with fascination about Waffen-SS?

Read book of Otto Carius Tigers in Mud, for perspective.

What's the "fascination"-How about they elongated the war by 9 months?

You should see US and even Russian re-enactors. Lot like to dress as SS...

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

What's with fascination about Waffen-SS?

Read book of Otto Carius Tigers in Mud, for perspective.

There is so much that is fascinating about the SS!

German tank ace Otto Carius
If you can't, or don't want to read the book in German, you can listen to Tigers in the mud by Otto Carius in English.

ORIGINAL: Templer_12

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

What's with fascination about Waffen-SS?

Read book of Otto Carius Tigers in Mud, for perspective.

There is so much that is fascinating about the SS!

German tank ace Otto Carius
If you can't, or don't want to read the book in German, you can listen to Tigers in the mud by Otto Carius in English.

The problem with that is that Carius wasn't in the Waffen SS.

ORIGINAL: Hanny

SS fans

Should be avoided at all costs? Huge red flag, even more problematic than your garden-variety wehraboo. Who would be a _fan_ of a quasi-irregular fanatic subdivision in the military which was often more interested in committing war crimes and crimes against humanity than achieving actual military objectives?

ORIGINAL: slothMD

ORIGINAL: Hanny

SS fans

Should be avoided at all costs? Huge red flag, even more problematic than your garden-variety wehraboo. Who would be a _fan_ of a quasi-irregular fanatic subdivision in the military which was often more interested in committing war crimes and crimes against humanity than achieving actual military objectives?

D Irving at his trial thought getting J Keegans expert testimony would help him, thinking Keegan liked him, as he helped Keegans research, turned out Keegan only wanted to know what Irving knew, so as to be better at understanding history, and actually disliked Irving, but engaged with him, if you want to know about the SS ask one of their fans.
Genocide was a military objective, try looking at the Nazi plans post victory for populations, UK to drop to 30 million and the rest gone, which was small fry as to the plans for the populations in the East.

Not sure what a "wehraboo" is and I'm not sure "fan" was meant above in the context you took it in. It's generally best to extend the benefit of the doubt on the internet, unless the poster makes sure to remove all doubt.

However, the subject of the SS can be a touchy one among wargamers. While they are "interesting" from a purely military perspective, many of the units were very clearly morally reprehensible "bad guys". Of course, on the Eastern Front there was also not much of a shortage of "bad guys" so you have to be willing to set that to the side to some degree to wargame the Eastern Front in full. The SS units also varied widely in quality as well as fanaticism or "devotion to the cause", especially as they added new units conscripted from conquered nations which were in many cases put under the control of the Waffen SS because they were politically suspect rather than politically reliable - the opposite of the SS stereotype.

The "core" SS still seems to always be a point of special interest from a military/wargaming standpoint because in some cases they fought fanatically (not always smartly) and often had better equipment and unique TO&Es. Any "elite" unit with special equipment in a particular war is going to get special attention from wargamers, in spite of the war crimes and atrocities many of the SS units were involved in, because it's another opportunity to see what a different type of unit with different fighting abilities does in a given situation. Personally I tend to think that for the most part the SS as a military force are a bit overrated, purely from a wargaming point of view, but I know there's plenty of evidence of hard fighting and battlefield bravery to go along with the evidence of less impressive battle and casualty results. I understand why it's of interest to wargamers to test these units against each other from a wargaming/battlefield point of view.

With all that said, I would expect that everyone on this forum is familiar with the full and terrible history and reputation of the SS. However, when wargaming the Eastern Front, the political and criminal aspects are typically set aside for a study of the military aspect and what it can teach about 20th Century combined arms motorized and mechanized warfare. Generally wargaming the Eastern Front does not involve picking sides or "roleplaying" as either the Nazis or the Soviets, or the SS or the NKVD, but focusing on the largest modern land war that ever happened and all that means as a sandbox for the study of combined arms combat, logistics, military history and the art and science of wargaming to understand the variables and influences on combat, past and present.

Regards,

- Erik