Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Menado is the colonial spelling, Manado the indonesian one.

That is a trap for the unwary.

Personally I'm in favour of using the names used in December 1941 but it is easy to not pick up the modern name has been slipped in.

Alfred

I have never really understood why all those names I learned and memorized as a kid had to change.

It still feels like some kind of dirty trick.

Political motivation tends to be a large driver of geographic name change.

With China in particular, it's due to the fact that the early translation efforts varied wildly between using the Cantonese dialect and Mandarin which led to some odd Romanisation.

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Alfred




That is a trap for the unwary.

Personally I'm in favour of using the names used in December 1941 but it is easy to not pick up the modern name has been slipped in.

Alfred

I have never really understood why all those names I learned and memorized as a kid had to change.

It still feels like some kind of dirty trick.

Political motivation tends to be a large driver of geographic name change.

With China in particular, it's due to the fact that the early translation efforts varied wildly between using the Cantonese dialect and Mandarin which led to some odd Romanisation.

All name changes are politically driven.

When it comes to altering the English name of a foreign location, there are two different rationales. One is acceptable to me, the other I have an extremely strong dislike and will not adopt.

The acceptable rationale is when the foreign location has decided for its own domestic reasons, to change. An example is St Petersburg (the Russian one, not the Florida one). Changed in 1914 to the Russian version because of the war with Germany. Changed after the Revolution to Leningrad to honour Lenin. Then back to St Petersburg after the end of Communist rule. All of course written in the Cyrillic alphabet. Another exemplar being Tsaritsyn to Stalingrad to Volgograd. Local decisions with no lecturing to other countries what they had to call these cities.

The unacceptable rationale is when a foreign country has the gall to demand that only their version is acceptable. These are always an exercise in naked power. So Peking to Beijing, Rangoon to Yangoon is nothing but an imposition. We don't call Rome Roma, or Florence Firenze, or Prague Praha, and more importantly the locals don't correct an english speaker when they don't use the local domestic name.

It is quite revealing that in most instances, the locals don't use the renames. This is particularly noticeable when you speak to Indians. I've come across a lot of Indians and almost without exception they still refer to Bombay, Madras and Calcutta. Understandable when you hear their explanation of the stupid domestic politicians who in their fervour to demonstrate decisiveness have made false claims that the renames represent the original names. Madras is s good example. It was never known as Chennai in the local language.

When we all agree that going to Venezia for Carnevale would be fun, or its time to have some Deutsch bier at Bayern, then and only then will I consider calling Canton Guangzhou. Until then I'm not kowtowing.

Alfred

Since I am Russian, I have some issues with Russian names
Both name and map artwork:
Kysyl -> Kyzyl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyzyl
Kyaktah -> Kyakhta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyakhta
Spassk-Dalniy -> Spassk-Dalny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spassk-Dalny but this one is not really important, can go either way
Petrovskiy -> Petrovsk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrovsk- ... sky_(town)
Choybalsan -> Choibalsan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choibalsan_(city)

Also there might be errors left in the map artwork for Krasnoyarsk, Sovetskaya Gavan. The names in the stock1 DB are correct

Part of the road is missing

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Which map are you using Hans? I looked at both the stock map and the extended map and neither one looks like your picture.

I checked as well and it does look like the map in Hans' screenshot is modified from the stock map.

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Menado is the colonial spelling, Manado the indonesian one.

Maybe, but I have seen both spellings in historic maps (like here). Happy to look at further maps to verify though.

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
Yes. As you can see in my screenshot, I took some liberties in regards to distances and relative positions of the Central Solomons in order to squeeze-in the historical bases for gameplay reasons. Now PT-109 can be based at Rendova in order to get sunk near Kolombangara [:D]

I could be persuaded to do some map manipulation to nudge Rendova into its own hex (it is currently on the hex border).

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Since I am Russian, I have some issues with Russian names
Both name and map artwork:
Kysyl -> Kyzyl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyzyl
Kyaktah -> Kyakhta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyakhta
Spassk-Dalniy -> Spassk-Dalny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spassk-Dalny but this one is not really important, can go either way
Petrovskiy -> Petrovsk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrovsk- ... sky_(town)
Choybalsan -> Choibalsan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choibalsan_(city)

Also there might be errors left in the map artwork for Krasnoyarsk, Sovetskaya Gavan. The names in the stock1 DB are correct

Thanks! I will chase these up and fix them.

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Part of the road is missing

I am guessing that is behind the name, but I will check.

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Part of the road is missing

I am guessing that is behind the name, but I will check.

There supposed to be no rail there behind Nanking name, map art is in line with map data. So everything is fine

Should have been more precise. The road under Anking

Well, I cannot think of a better source than this one.

Ministerie van Oorlog
Hoofdkwartier van de Generale Staf
Krijgsgeschiedkundige Afdeling

Nederlands-Indie contra Japan
Deel V
De Strijd op Borneo en op Celebes

Bewerkt door de kolonels van het K.N.I.L b.d.
C. van den Hoogenband en L. Schotborgh

's Gravenhage 1957

Ministry of War
HQ of the General Staff
Section Military History

Netherlands-Indies against Japan
Part V
The Struggle for Borneo and Celebes

Arranged by KNIL Colonels ret.
C. van den Hoogenband and L. Schotborgh

The Hague 1957

I purchased the whole lot (7 volumes) for a few hundred Euros. This work contains about 100 maps of the Indies for the period December 1941 to March 1942.

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Menado is the colonial spelling, Manado the indonesian one.

Maybe, but I have seen both spellings in historic maps (like here). Happy to look at further maps to verify though.

Clearly a very good one. But I wouldn't trust the spelling. Celebes ist spelled Selebes (never saw that before), Semarang spelled Samarang, Bandjermasin spelled Bandjarmasin. Samarang/Bandjarmasin are ancient spellings (before 1941).

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Well, I cannot think of a better source than this one.

Ministerie van Oorlog
Hoofdkwartier van de Generale Staf
Krijgsgeschiedkundige Afdeling

Nederlands-Indie contra Japan
Deel V
De Strijd op Borneo en op Celebes

Bewerkt door de kolonels van het K.N.I.L b.d.
C. van den Hoogenband en L. Schotborgh

's Gravenhage 1957

Ministry of War
HQ of the General Staff
Section Military History

Netherlands-Indies against Japan
Part V
The Struggle for Borneo and Celebes

Arranged by KNIL Colonels ret.
C. van den Hoogenband and L. Schotborgh

The Hague 1957

That's quite a source. Menado it is

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Should have been more precise. The road under Anking

The road art is under the Anking text, so I need to shift it a little.

This came up in the "Empire of the Sun" AAR:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Speaking of terrain types. What do you guys think of hexes 80,13/81,14/81,15. They appear as clear hexes in the map but they are given the designation of WR (x3 terrain) when I press the 1 button. This is in stock scenario/map. I assume it is probably WR and the map is wrong?

Definitely a mismatch between the art and the actual terrain-type.

From the same AAR (two posts down), he mentions the river between Diamond Harbor and Calcutta. And indeed the F6 key confirms it, but the waterway is not visible on the map.

ORIGINAL: Kull

This came up in the "Empire of the Sun" AAR:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Speaking of terrain types. What do you guys think of hexes 80,13/81,14/81,15. They appear as clear hexes in the map but they are given the designation of WR (x3 terrain) when I press the 1 button. This is in stock scenario/map. I assume it is probably WR and the map is wrong?

Definitely a mismatch between the art and the actual terrain-type.

I think DesertWolf101 is right - those are probably forest+rough hexes. I will fix the map art to match.

Thanks.

ORIGINAL: Kull

From the same AAR (two posts down), he mentions the river between Diamond Harbor and Calcutta. And indeed the F6 key confirms it, but the waterway is not visible on the map.

From memory that is deliberate. It is a navigable river hexside that allows ships to move directly between Diamond Harbour and Calcutta, without having to transit through hex 51,37. I think there were a couple of other spots on the map where I did something similar.