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RE: Operational losses very high (Axis side '41 Campaign)
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:51 pm
by 56ajax
ORIGINAL: Karri
Operational losses are quite low when the mission ranges are short. During Barbarossa, the planes suffer just like the rest of the units.
OTOH, ground support causes way too high casualties. For Axis, because from time to time you forget to turn it off when doing attacks far ahead, which means that the planes fly without escorts and get shot down. For the Soviets, any battle where Axis can bring sufficient numbers will result in an almost total wipeout. There should always be air superiority resolution in the hex that is attacked, and if the results are skewed too hard in either direction then the mission should be cancelled.
Not just mission ranges but distance from the Staging Base as well. Make all distances as short as possible. Probably make the Staging base a Fighter base?
RE: Operational losses very high (Axis side '41 Campaign)
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:43 am
by DoctorHaider
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
This has been a subject of great debate for months/years in the test forum. Op losses are high, intentionally so. For some of the reasons mentioned in this thread. Are they too high, maybe. However, during the war well over half of Soviet air losses were operational losses. I'm actually of the belief that the massive (80-100%) losses that the Soviets can suffer in their missions that get intercepted are likely more unrealistic than the high op losses. We will continue to monitor the results we see in AARs and various posts, but no changes are in the works or anticipated anytime soon.
This has been a subject of great debate for months/years in the test forum. Op losses are high, intentionally so. For some of the reasons mentioned in this thread. Are they too high, maybe. However, during the war well over half of Soviet air losses were operational losses. I'm actually of the belief that the massive (80-100%) losses that the Soviets can suffer in their missions that get intercepted are likely more unrealistic than the high op losses. We will continue to monitor the results we see in AARs and various posts, but no changes are in the works or anticipated anytime soon.
Good point, thanks.
But I wonder why the pilot losses over the operational losses of planes are almost equal? In the scope of the all possible operational loss reasons the probabilities to survive look more favorable than in the direct combat.
Also imo too much Soviet pilots KIA at turn 1 for the ground plane losses. In reality the plane losses vastly excedeed the pilot losses after the Axis airbase attack campaign.
RE: Operational losses very high (Axis side '41 Campaign)
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:18 pm
by zuekamo
not sure about that.
missions with altitude 9000 always give the best recon values.
a recon mission with a middle camera at 9000 is better than a mission with a middle camera at 24000
RE: Operational losses very high (Axis side '41 Campaign)
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:17 am
by Sly
Returning to the main topic, I agree with the opinion that in the case of operational losses, the losses of pilots are the most painful.
As stated in the manual:
The crews of the destroyed planes will be for the phase player
90 percent of the crew was destroyed and 10 percent
captured. Player planes that are not phased will have 100
percentage of their KIA crew if the plane is destroyed.
Since the op losses level is intentionally high, pilots should have a better chance of survival. In the end, Rudel was reportedly shot down 13 times, if I remember correctly. As a virtual pilot, he wouldn't have had any chance of survival.
RE: Operational losses very high (Axis side '41 Campaign)
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:43 am
by stryc
I am new to this game and I'm trying to understand why my Recon ops loses on the first few turns of the Road To Leningrad scenario are so fantastically high.
I am being conservative with my recon assets, running them maybe twice a week (if that), at low intensity, often over small (4) areas, and at short-medium range, but the Ops loss rate is still enormous. After a mere two turns of zero enemy air opposition, avoiding major flak sources, and flying in fine weather, I've lost nearly 50% of my recon assets to, as best as I can tell, almost nothing at all. In two turns.
Clearly I don't understand what's going on.
RE: Operational losses very high (Axis side '41 Campaign)
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:53 am
by First_Contact_Gamer
ORIGINAL: stryc
I am new to this game and I'm trying to understand why my Recon ops loses on the first few turns of the Road To Leningrad scenario are so fantastically high.
I am being conservative with my recon assets, running them maybe twice a week (if that), at low intensity, often over small (4) areas, and at short-medium range, but the Ops loss rate is still enormous. After a mere two turns of zero enemy air opposition, avoiding major flak sources, and flying in fine weather, I've lost nearly 50% of my recon assets to, as best as I can tell, almost nothing at all. In two turns.
Clearly I don't understand what's going on.
You seem to have covered a lot of the triggers that can impact operational losses but one that I don't see mentioned is the condition of your airbases, are they damaged? This can be found in the manual in 4.5.8
RE: Operational losses very high (Axis side '41 Campaign)
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:11 pm
by stryc
ORIGINAL: First_Contact_Gamer
ORIGINAL: stryc
I am new to this game and I'm trying to understand why my Recon ops loses on the first few turns of the Road To Leningrad scenario are so fantastically high.
I am being conservative with my recon assets, running them maybe twice a week (if that), at low intensity, often over small (4) areas, and at short-medium range, but the Ops loss rate is still enormous. After a mere two turns of zero enemy air opposition, avoiding major flak sources, and flying in fine weather, I've lost nearly 50% of my recon assets to, as best as I can tell, almost nothing at all. In two turns.
Clearly I don't understand what's going on.
You seem to have covered a lot of the triggers that can impact operational losses but one that I don't see mentioned is the condition of your airbases, are they damaged? This can be found in the manual in 4.5.8
No damage. Green lights across the board. (Well, a few warnings for slight overstacking on some but only by ~10%.)