Matrix Games Forums

Turn 1
Ground Losses

On the ground those numbers seem okay. I will need to look at some other AAR to gauge exactly where I am for a first turn. I was very impressed with the Germans uniformly stopping at 6,000 exactly killed. Quite a few guns and AFV lost too.

Turn 1
Aircraft Losses

...this however will be altogether more painful. As loki said, the Soviets lost more aircraft during the ground fighting, but the German losses continued to climb too....

655 aircraft and 579 aircrew. That's really not good news....

Turn 1
Destroyed

Finally its the destroyed units - all Soviet I am pleased to say at the moment.

2x the combat losses to operational losses the first turn?
Where are the losses coming? Unescorted bombers?

ORIGINAL: Seminole

2x the combat losses to operational losses the first turn?
Where are the losses coming? Unescorted bombers?

warspite1

I'll see what stats are available when the game comes back to me.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Seminole

2x the combat losses to operational losses the first turn?
Where are the losses coming? Unescorted bombers?

warspite1

I'll see what stats are available when the game comes back to me.

I'd say yes, your operational losses are not unusual, what stands out is the ratio of air combat losses between the 2 sides (& the overall high loss of bombers).

did you turn on/off the GS option as the ground turn progressed? Realise its something else to remember but it is really important. Neither side have the air assets to just randomise the commitment, GS has to be chosen to fit the task.

One good thing re your losses. Crudely from about T2-T5 the LW is largely useless. You can't move it to keep cover over the spearheads, its a complete waste used to clear up the T1 pockets. So by the time you can use it again (say around Smolensk, Kiev and Pskov) it should have largely recovered from that battering.

Now against an experienced Soviet player that is a problem, they will do all sorts of nasty things while the cat is recovering from being declawed. Here I suspect your opponent probably won't spot the chance, but it'll be interesting to see if he does [8D]

In general, much more than the first game, it really helps to have played both sides, you get a better feel for capabilities and what a given level of damage actually means

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Seminole

2x the combat losses to operational losses the first turn?
Where are the losses coming? Unescorted bombers?

warspite1

I'll see what stats are available when the game comes back to me.

did you turn on/off the GS option as the ground turn progressed? Realise its something else to remember but it is really important. Neither side have the air assets to just randomise the commitment, GS has to be chosen to fit the task.

warspite1

I didn't see an obvious time to turn off the GS. But there was so much going and I was trying to take it all in. Maybe I missed something obvious, but from what I could see, the Soviets kept being spanked in the air so I thought lets keep that going to make up some earlier losses.....

ORIGINAL: loki100

Now against an experienced Soviet player that is a problem, they will do all sorts of nasty things while the cat is recovering from being declawed. Here I suspect your opponent probably won't spot the chance, but it'll be interesting to see if he does

warspite1

We are both using AI for the air so presumably my opponent is in the same situation I am? Or is there scope for him to do something within the AI framework?

ORIGINAL: warspite1

....
I didn't see an obvious time to turn off the GS. But there was so much going and I was trying to take it all in. Maybe I missed something obvious, but from what I could see, the Soviets kept being spanked in the air so I thought lets keep that going to make up some earlier losses.....

...

key is to only use your figthers so flip GS off and they still commit - see the rules at the end of 18.1.3

its always a matter of choice but there is a good reason to work through RTL and DSWF before the main campaign, there are a lot of these things to the game design and while a lot of effort went into reducing the heffalump traps they still exist and best experienced in the context of something that is no big deal to restart etc

warspite1

We are both using AI for the air so presumably my opponent is in the same situation I am? Or is there scope for him to do something within the AI framework?

aye that will limit the options but you'll still have Soviet bombers hitting your railyards so put some AA into places like Minsk

So I've got the Soviet turn back. Now is the small matter of working out what the hell.....[X(]

As with my first turn, there is no point me trying to get to grips with everything as it simply won't work. So I will go through and look at what I can and, if I think something looks like an immediate 'need to know' then I will drill down.

First thing I will do is look at:

a) a quick scan of the battleground to see if there is anything of obvious concern as a result of the Soviet turn
b) some high level numbers
c) areas that I think need looking at in order to best undertake turn 2.

Turn 1
Soviet Response

Army Group North

AGN first. There appears to be no Soviets in Kurland - and no land route opened up across the Dvina. So either they are oos thanks to FOW or they have got away across the Gulf of Riga.

The pocket in Lithuania between Kaunas and Riga appears to have opened up and there is little by way of Soviets left that I can see - so perhaps some units got back across the Dvina between two the two motorised regiments.

There were no land battles on this front.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

AGN first. There appears to be no Soviets in Kurland - and no land route opened up across the Dvina. So either they are oos thanks to FOW or they have got away across the Gulf of Riga.

In case you didn't/are not aware, you should do naval interdiction missions to stop them from being able to get away and to ensure that they are isolated.

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

ORIGINAL: warspite1

AGN first. There appears to be no Soviets in Kurland - and no land route opened up across the Dvina. So either they are oos thanks to FOW or they have got away across the Gulf of Riga.

In case you didn't/are not aware, you should do naval interdiction missions to stop them from being able to get away and to ensure that they are isolated.

warspite1

I was assuming I wouldn't need them on Turn 1. Looks like that was a false assumption.

Turn 1
Soviet Response

Army Group Centre

It looks like my concerns were overplayed and the Bialystok pocket appears to have held intact.

Again there were no land battles.

Turn 1
Soviet Response

Army Group South

The Soviets fought back in two places - Redhekov and Busk. Both were Deliberate attacks.

Redhekov

The 3rd Regiment of the 13th Panzer Division was assaulted by elements of the 15th Mechanised Corps. Losses of tanks, guns and men were light. Two more fighters were lost, bit the Soviets lost most of the bombers that took part in the battle.

Busk

Here the 2nd Regiment of the 11th Panzer Division lost most of their tanks holding off the 4th Mechanised Corps, containing more than 5x the amount of armour. Again the Soviet bombers paid a heavy price for the loss of two German fighters.

Turn 1
Soviet Response

Ground Losses

The Axis losses (and Soviet for that matter) seem to have shot up - mostly in the disabled section - compared to the figures after the German turn (see loki's reasoning in post 40 for why this is).

After the German turn and then the Soviet turn.

Turn 1
Soviet Response

Air Losses

Not sure what the definition of last action and current turn is at present and will check on these too. See 23.10.2. Not completely sure what this is saying but ultimately this is not something to get hung up about!

After the German turn and then the Soviet turn

Turn 2

Turn Summary

So this tells me:

Top Left - I have 8 ground (all infantry divisions) and 3 air units (2 Recon and 1 Tactical Bomber) arriving this turn.

93rd, 96th and 98th Divisions arrive at Brandenburg
112th Division arrives at Warsaw
15th Division arrives at Kutno
132nd Division arrives at Tarnow
46th Division arrives at Suceava

94th Division arrives at Krakow
I will not move the 94th Division. I would like to explore use of the Theatre Boxes and will use this division as my 'guinea pig'. This unit is involved in two transfers later - both in 1943. I think it highly unlikely this game will reach 1942 let alone 1943 so I won't worry about this.

xxx to look up - how most efficiently to get to the front
where do they go - what higher commands xxx

The three airgroups arrive at Axis Reserves

xxx definition of 'Axis Reserves' xxx

Losses are for the prior 6 phases. The numbers are roughly in line with those above - a few out either way - FOW?

OB changes are broken into 3 categories for the Axis: change in strength on the map, change in strength in the TBs, and change in strength of units currently in-transfer. The enemy change in strength is the
total of all three categories. Tanks and aircraft look bad already!

The whole logistics 'thing' is all a bit of a blur at present. But at least I have more trucks than I need.....[:D]

Interesting snap shot of the combat units - I will have a looks at the alerts. I have one unit with low supply and two are understrength. Unsurprisingly the two panzer regiments attacked by the Soviets are the understrength units.

The 99th Light Division, part of AGS is low on supply.

I'll need to read up on what the bottom box means, but this is not a priority for the moment.

Turn Summary bottom box.

Turn 2

New Events

Right there are three screens that look like they need some attention.

Finland enters the war.
Finnish TB (AX) ground combat intensity is set to VERY LOW (1)
Finnish TB (AX) air combat intensity is set to MEDIUM (3)
Northern Front TB (SO) ground combat intensity is set to VERY LOW (1)
Northern Front TB (SO) air combat intensity is set to MEDIUM (3)

Apparently I don't have enough troops in Finland (cost - 1 VP and 1 AP)
I don't have enough troops in the Balkans (cost - 1 VP and 1 AP)

I am going to use one of my division reinforcements to 'explore' this. But I can't do it this turn as I need to wait a turn before removing to a TB.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 1
Soviet Response

Ground Losses

The Axis losses (and Soviet for that matter) seem to have shot up - mostly in the disabled section - compared to the figures after the German turn. I will have a look at the manual to see why this is.

...

two reasons

one you both (but esp the Soviets as it keys off morale/exp) take attrition losses in the logistics phase (think of this as patrols, trench raids all that sort of stuff)

the other is damaged elements are then assessed. Some become permanent losses, prob the bulk are treated as disabled (men needing more medical care than a quick return to unit), some are sent back to unit (light wounds, quick repairs etc)