Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Vic

Also I think you need to select HARD mode to NOT have guaranteed water.

Just generated 2 hard games and got water every time.[8|]

Extreme too. [:D]

ORIGINAL: WiZz

ORIGINAL: Vic

Also I think you need to select HARD mode to NOT have guaranteed water.

Just generated 2 hard games and got water every time.[8|]

Extreme too. [:D]

I'll double check the algorithms.

Kind of off topic but what if planets with a hostile biosphere and toxic fauna had the potential to have toxic water as well requiring specific filtration techs to be usable. This may require players using subsurface deposits until they can use the surface water

ORIGINAL: LORDPrometheus

Kind of off topic but what if planets with a hostile biosphere and toxic fauna had the potential to have toxic water as well requiring specific filtration techs to be usable. This may require players using subsurface deposits until they can use the surface water

It could make water filtration asset usable...

ORIGINAL: Uemon

Vic you should consider adding starting resources as a new game settings option.

For example give player control over whether they start with that metal deposit or not. For example i dont care whether i start with taxes or not, whether i get water or not, but that metal deposit kinda makes a huge difference.

I hear that Beginner (and Normal ?) players are now guaranteed a nearby Metal spot ? (In addition to their Ruins of course.)

(Might still be a fairness issue on harder difficulties multiplayer ?)

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Without a water source you would simply not be able to exist.

My headcanon goes like this:
- there is no shortage of settlements on the planets. Most are free folk towns
- only the most relevant become actuall cities
- and of those cities, only those that find reliable sources of water, metal and rare metals have a shot at becomming majors

There are 2 "great filters" between the Free Folk towns, the player and any AI major.

Even realism-wise there are still the sub-zero xenoplants. And I assume that regimes with otherwise abundant resources would be able to trade for water ?

I would limit it to players, as the AI could not plan itself out off a water shortage while 1 hex from a lake.

I see what you mean (AI being pretty dumb in general), but Vic's AI can't possibly be *that* bad (in this specific case) ?

ORIGINAL: LORDPrometheus

Kind of off topic but what if planets with a hostile biosphere and toxic fauna had the potential to have toxic water as well requiring specific filtration techs to be usable. This may require players using subsurface deposits until they can use the surface water

Filtering can be as simple as boiling the water and catching the steam. Basic destillation is not a particulary hard technology. So at the end, you got water from rain, rivers, lakes or oceans.

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

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ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Without a water source you would simply not be able to exist.

My headcanon goes like this:
- there is no shortage of settlements on the planets. Most are free folk towns
- only the most relevant become actuall cities
- and of those cities, only those that find reliable sources of water, metal and rare metals have a shot at becomming majors

There are 2 "great filters" between the Free Folk towns, the player and any AI major.

Even realism-wise there are still the sub-zero xenoplants. And I assume that regimes with otherwise abundant resources would be able to trade for water ?

I would limit it to players, as the AI could not plan itself out off a water shortage while 1 hex from a lake.

I see what you mean (AI being pretty dumb in general), but Vic's AI can't possibly be *that* bad (in this specific case) ?

Trading for something as fundamental as water would not be longterm feasible. If you have metals and rare metals but no water source, chances are the need to trade for water would limit you to being a minor city at best.
It is save to asume that Free Folk towns do include some food and water production - however this is so far below your ability to tax it, it does not realy mater either way.

As for the AI:
Gaming AI can not plan ahead. Not even a little. It is a fundamental, unavoidable limitation.

"Dwindling Resources" is a good example of something where:
- there is so little planing ahead to do, the average human does not even notice he just did some planing
- there is so much planing to do there is no way for the AI to do it

ORIGINAL: WiZz
If you find at least 1 glacier/snow hex you solve water problem for a whole game. No need to research/build those buildings which gather water from atmosphere or lithosphere.

Im playing on hard and on slower game settings and by turn 80 all the water from planet is gone.

But I agree, water mining should be changed, perhaps all planets should have one "easy" water at start with low stock and the rest should be much harder to mine. So arid planets would have extremely slow to mine water sources(but still enough), meaning you would need a lot of mines, making the other water buildings more attractive while making sure water does not run out too early even if you are low tech(but it should still run out eventually)

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

ORIGINAL: LORDPrometheus

Kind of off topic but what if planets with a hostile biosphere and toxic fauna had the potential to have toxic water as well requiring specific filtration techs to be usable. This may require players using subsurface deposits until they can use the surface water

Well yes but also no. You are correct that basic distillation and filtration is very easy however there are many ways for water to be contaminated. Many polar compounds form azeotropes with water which complicates distillation as a fractional setup would be required. Water could also become contaminated by biological means. It is very conceivable for bacteria or fungi to be present in the air of a world and rapidly colonize and exposed water. They could produce a myriad of toxins that could do serious harm to anyone unlucky enough to drink them. I'm just throwing out ideas and this is only one idea to further cement the idea of a hostile world.

ORIGINAL: phyroks
Im playing on hard and on slower game settings and by turn 80 all the water from planet is gone.

I don't believe it. It seems you don't do any prospecting.

ORIGINAL: WiZz

ORIGINAL: phyroks
Im playing on hard and on slower game settings and by turn 80 all the water from planet is gone.

I don't believe it. It seems you don't do any prospecting.

You do know that there is a screen for you to know if there is anything left to prospect?

And no, the few mines I had did not just pump water over the limit, some were mothballed/slowed down so that I would not waste it. Its not the 1st game where water is not infinite resource (but it does not always happen on arid planets), slower speed on game and larger planet makes water more "fun" if there is no rainfall.

I dont remember when the water shortage made me start removing dome farms and move to hydroponics/rock dehydration and slowing down water mining, but it sometimes happens.

But if you do get some water source with large amount of water its rather hard to fully deplete it, I dont think any of the ones I discovered in this game had more than 200k water.

Water system could be tweaked to be better but its not always complete failure. [8|]

ORIGINAL: phyroks
....slower speed on game and larger planet makes water more "fun" if there is no rainfall...

Good to know - I will experiment with that.