Matrix Games Forums

Thanks fluid, always nice to know it's being appreciated.

0700-0734: Now for wrath, now for ruin...



The 1st echelon won the race. And by winning the race, also won the first series of engagements. But more importantly than that, winning the race meant any fight for the key terrain was going to happen either in the open, at close range, or moving - all of which favor the soviets here - and that it meant the echelons assigned to seizing objectives would likely be able to move up, if not uncontested, then at least under the cover of very favorable fires.

The battle is far from over at this point, but I will admit that I felt quite optimistic after seeing this sequence play out:

Recon units made contact and somehow are not immediately slaughtered by the British; both sides fell back of their own accord and thought better of this fighting business.




The path into Samern was open, and my lead battalion got to the eastern ridge in time to sqaure off part of a British tank company occupying the western ridge. Either I got very lucky, or the northern platoon dropped in SCREEN rather than HOLD orders, negating much of the cover benefit of the town. T-64s won the firefight at around 1800m or so, really at the edge of their effective envelope for this sort of thing.



Also, you may have noticed the lead elements of an infantry company moving up there. Things did not go well for them, which was essential as it both allowed my own infantry occupy the town unopposed and prevented enemy infantry form trying to close with my tanks in the town.



In targeting news, the Hinds did their job. Electronic signature collection complete, the RAG got it's first two full group fire missions. As an in game note, you have to keep your eye open for these as they appear:



Unlike radio traffic, they often blip once and then fall out of view again. In this case I got multiple static blips, so both ADA sites were confirmed and targeted for fire. Not sure where to fall on this one; I'm not enough of an expert in RWRs to know if 1980s era Hind Vs' could really locate radar with precision, or if it would just be a buzzing red light letting the pilot know he was illuminated and some rough type information. I also have questions about the ability to slug that data through to regimental guns...and I don't know if the helicopters would even have the GLONASS systems to use for referencing what they picke dup. In hindsight and review, using this information might have made me a gamey bastard with the technology of the time. Un/fortunately, I had this revelation while writing the post rather than while sending orders.

Looks like a ton of fun and hard decisions. Thanks for sharing the AARs!! [8D]

Always nice to see mod/designer feedback.

0738-0815: In which things get violent/



A lot happened, very quickly. After this chunk, some 137 soviet subunits and 128 BAOR subunits will be out of action, leaving the BAOR at under 50% strength in the space of less than 40 minutes, and the soviet penetration pared back to two companies (which, as we'll see later, is liekly all that saved the BAOR rear area from being immediately overrun). Slightly tangentianlly, in some ways I prefer playing the soviets for the command aesthetic of it - you make your choices and generally the big chunks of the battle play out without any real chance to change it. This was one of those moments.

In the north, two major occurrences. A mixed force of infantry and armor sallied out to meet my oncoming horde, who mostly just happily took up firing positions at the invitation. This did divert some of the tanks headed for the west wood. Generally, even though the superior British soldiers and fire control let them score some kills at distance, the large soviet formations in cover put paid to the BAOR forces.





Two more companies of T-64s crossed the ridge and ran smack into a British tank company and some AT forces trying to deploy onto the ridge. The two sides beat each other into a bloody mess, the British usually getting the first shots and the soviets getting the last ones. The attack here was effectively done form this point on, but it did what it meant to do, kill British and deny the north while the main effort went in further south.

In that direction a reasonable, not perfect, success. Rapid re-adjustments to what appeared to be oncoming British saw companies peeling off early to grab good positions. None the less, one of the lead companies completed its planned turn along the west side of the woods, catching an infantry company on the move and helping put a crossfire on a tank platoon.





That in turn was supported by actions in Schuttorf-Samern which, with the help of an airstrike (the British Rapiers, as expected, died to massed artillery), battered down most of the resistance in the town proper, though still left a couple tank platoons in position to fire on both the town and the southern corridor.



On which note, I made a classic soviet error and sent one tank company to "try something" and see if it could slip around the south. Under continuous fire, even very long range fire, suffice to say it could not. Really, the soviets need to work in mass for anything to work, particularly with less capable units, so this was rather foolish of me.

All of which served to support the one real effort of it all, the penetration:



I had hoped to get at least four reasonably intact companies through here; instead pulling off to deal with other fights and the decision to leave one company securing the bridges meant only two companies were heading onwards. Still enough to cause problems for the British reserves, but not the force I wanted to completely crush the rear areas.

Still, things were looking generally positive. Three of the four BAOR tank companies were badly damaged, as was the AT company and two of three infantry companies. The last infantry company had been spotted moving towards the southern woods, and lost a platoon in the process but was still a threat. Soviet units had mostly reached their objectives and did what they needed to do. The battle seemed to be going well, but between the reserves and ad-hoc reorganization the BAOR still might have some tricks to stave off disaster.

A Special Aside: The LAW Commandos

Remember what I said about British infantry? Here is one squad trying to displace back across a bridge under fire from two battalions and in close contact with a full rifle company. Sounds like they'd be having a bad day? Not if you're this man:





Final kill count before successfully withdrawing across the bridge: 7x BMPs, 2x Tanks, and a rifle squad for the giggles.

Here we have another fine specimen of British soldiery - escaping from the wrecks of their burning vehicles, one last squad runs north into the woods while tanks several hundred meters away fire at them relentlessly.



I'll give you a hint, that tank company started out adjacent to them at full strength. They naturally forgot to bring their swords, a foolish mistake when fighting this man:

well .. its not actually a Scottish regiment, but given its past formations, guess this bloke could have done some serious damage?

I was saving him for later. Green jackets and all, I was going to save the best for last.

0816-0856: Penetration vs the Reserve (Also, Richard Sharpe learns to use a LAW)



The majority of the action here was defined by the the results of the two penetration companies converging on the last known HQ point along separate roads. However, the north also saw two British tank platoons destroyed trying to cross the northern ridge.

The rest was mostly desultory firefights and trading of artillery shells.

But, on to the penetration. I, perhaps foolishly, sent one tank company down each major route towards the BAOR rear. I was of the opinion that two comapnies wouldn't force a position, but one might find a hole. As it turned out, the British sent two reserve platoons in each direction as well. The tankers met each other on the move.



What followed was two separate fights. In the east, both sides literally drove into each other along the wooded and light urban B404, prompting a hast exchange of shots that left 5 soviet and 4 British tanks destroyed before each side disappeared around it's respective bend, the soviets heading to pick up a firing position in town and the BAOR headed, well somewhere.

The west was a bit more nuanced. The BAOR stopped in time to try a SCREEN based defense, trying to keep the soviets at range. And for a few tanks this worked, but my tankers finally closed the distance by the expedient of driving right past their burning friends. At that point, only the timely arrival of british artillery firing just at their minimum range saved the the BAOR tankers. Well, tank singular. So over here, 8 T64s for 5 Chieftains.



A partial success. I had not managed to overrun the BAOR's rear, but the engagement had all but destroyed the British reserves before they could commit, which was certainly on the list of objectives. With those conditions set, I released my reserves to complete the penetration and finish the fight. Hopefully.

But, Sharpe

Now, I should have said that was the tactical story. Bernard Cornwell helped write the other major event of the hour.



By now, I knew that the scariest part of this battle had nothing to do with the tanks. I silently hoped my tanks would not fire, maybe letting the potential great danger pass?



Now, now I was horrified. Nothing says the Evil Empire (that's me) is done for more than leaving a lone survivor. Especially not a lone Green Jacket. And most definitely not this man:



He set to work immediately, presumably grabbing every LAW he could from the burning tracks while also finding time to romance one of the locals.









At some point in there, I assume one of his plucky companions hijacked one of my tanks and was only destroyed in a dramatic manner allowing Sharpe and his love interest to escape to the north.

And by escape, I mean swear vengeance on his friend's killer and renew the attack.





And while that's all you see this turn, I can assure you, there is a sequel that follows the same basic plot.

All in good humor here - and really, when you remember this system is more of an illustrative game that required some light simming to make the command pieces work, it can be forgiven - but if the rest of the battle wasn't going so well I might have been more irate.

Great AAR from you as always. Really was wondering if this Scenario was even winable if playing as the Soviets. Every time I played it, the Soviets rarely made it accross the crossroad.

ORIGINAL: Secret45

Great AAR from you as always. Really was wondering if this Scenario was even winable if playing as the Soviets. Every time I played it, the Soviets rarely made it accross the crossroad.

you need the BAOR to make the mistake of going for an early win - that way you get into a series of meeting engagements and can trade at say 1.5:1 (at least till Sean Bean takes a personal interest).

If the BAOR player (& the AI does this) aims for a defensive line, I think they can absorb pretty much anything the Soviets can generate. The trade off in the 2 stances is relatively marginal so in most cases the British can get set up so that the VP are in play and be dug in.

You can do exciting things like counter-attacks later.

I got far too ambitious, if it had worked it would have set up a situation where the Soviets had no secure rear movement space ... as it is I ended up creating a situation where BAOR had no secure movement space

Against a well set British line, I think the only tool you have is the SU-24s, they are near unstoppable given the rapiers so wonder if the solution is an early push, take what you can hold, wait for the airpower (& by the time you get the 3 flights that is a lot of destruction) and then commit your second echelon. I know the British get some Tornados later on but the Soviets get the bulk of the airbased killing power.

Not sure how that sets against the scenario time limit?

After playing this game set, I did try a vs AI run as the soviets. You can win largely because the AI is so slow on the March. By the time the AI BAOR up, you're already set and can murder them from your defensive positions.

0932: The End of The Road

For about half an hour, the fight mostly consisted of a handful of long range exchanges, an air strike, some artillery, and me generally failing to get the hinds to shoot anything. The only really significant event was that both sides set their forces in to attack; my reserve tank BN was travelling, and the BAOR patched together a tank company to start moving towards the far western crossroads.

Oh, and of course, our favorite green jacket:



While being shelled by two regimental mortar batteries he killed enough tanks in another company half a KM away that they broke and fled into the open to be killed by tank guns. In fairness to them, the chieftains shooting at them at 700 meters in the open were less pound for pound deadly.

Anyhow, the British counterattack arrived at 0932. The defending company removed its lead echelon in one volley, and that ended the battle.






Soviet Kills


BAOR Kills

So, a tie. Admittedly, I have a hard time seeing it that way with the 12th Armoured more or less destroyed, the soviets holding everything they wanted and having plenty of fresh forces, but that's the algorithmic outcome. Given I have won a "by the points" victory vs the AI, I know its possible, but man the human playing the brits would really have to commit mortal tactical sins for it to happen. Short of the Soviets winning the foot race hands down AND the brits feeding troops doggedly into the blender after that, not many situations come to mind where the soviets could win on points.

More on that later...

Interesting AAR. Thanks.

Definitely nice AARs! Nice enough I decided to give the scenario a shot as the Rus vs AI. Definitely a fun and hard fought scenario as the Rus. And I also had problems with the Hind Helicopters. They simply would not fire at identified targets in range. I think there might be a bug lurking there. I updated my game to latest version and patch. Everything else worked nicely. Fun scenario.