Matrix Games Forums

Amen. The SdKfzw 250/7 GrW and SdKfzw 251/2 are a Godsend. They're so handy I almost always change my organic 81mm's (and even the 60mm's half the time) with them.

When i started the long campaign against poland circa 1939. I bought 3 sections of pz with only the mmg on them. Then when the stugs came in around 1940 i upgraded the pzs to them. I used the pzs as infantry support only. Then when i got the stugs they are used in the same role only. My mobile td are used as tank support or in defensive roles. Also in support of the stugs i use the pzIvs like 2 sections of them.

Personally I don't like turretless TDs (Ie. German) because they react ?slower? than tanks especially against infantry and they have less ?spotting? ability than tanks. I don't know if you guys have experienced this but the PzIII is definitely much better than a Stug B (in the early war.) You can use Stugs against the computer and it would be easier (because they rarely if ever flank and always shoot you dead front) but not that easily against humans who use flank shots from AT guns/tanks/TDs and even mortars (in some desperate cases) to render piles of front armor useless. AND if they are immobilized then say goodbye to the poor; Stug this turn or the next. At least tanks can turn their turrets and can engage their main gun and at least 1 of their MGs (usually 2). against infantry and armor.

And in the late war I dont see the point in using Stugs unless you're trying to save on cost. IMHO a Tiger is worth 2-3 Stugs in effectiveness, a King Tiger around a platoon. I only use Stugs now as deterrents, hidden in the flanks or as last armored defense in my home VHes.

Originally posted by Alexandra
The lack of a turret doesn't matter at all. Not in the game, except when the TD's been immobilized? Why? As was earlier pointed out, any vehicle in the game can spin and dance like a ballerina. One can make an argument that a Stug is *better* to buy then an Panzer, becaue they are cheaper, so you can get more for the same point cost, and that the Stug's histroical disadvantge, the lack of a turret, does not enter into the game.

Alex

correct.

should be changed, or price of turretless vehicles be higher !

Originally posted by rbrunsman
I sure love my elite Stugs in MCLV. They are deadly.

you should see my KV2´s in russian steel. against inf the most deadly units i can imagine. it´s only a prob with them with own inf in nearby hexes and the KV opp. fires near them...

speaking of non german units i must say, that M18 hellcats in the hand of a good US commander can be deadly. they are fast and hit hard. the 76mm can take out tigers from the side with ease.
( or not ? )

Originally posted by Frank W.
speaking of non german units i must say, that M18 hellcats in the hand of a good US commander can be deadly. they are fast and hit hard. the 76mm can take out tigers from the side with ease.
( or not ? )

Lol.....probably not id say.Reason i like M18 is that they are fast (though light armored) and they have many shots.Usually M18 can fire like 5 times even after movement but Tiger fires only 2.

Got to remember the Stugs were elite, units. And they were also small and lower, so for the cost I always get some.


The US fast armor, you are correct they are deadly but you would think more german players would buy small AT guns the 28mm and 37mm AT, and the AT rifle can take out Hellcats, and even M10s from the side;)

Originally posted by Frank W.
you should see my KV2´s in russian steel. against inf the most deadly units i can imagine. it´s only a prob with them with own inf in nearby hexes and the KV opp. fires near them...

How many shots are you getting with an elite KV-2? When I have them in PBEM, they only get 2 shots and if you move much, it goes down to 1. My elite StuGs are getting about 4 shots, but of course they run out of ammo quickly if you shoot at everything.

you are correct. the ROF of the KV2 is low.but it seems the get good OP fire values.

i just have lost a KV2 in scen no. 18 ( i believe ) in russian steel where you have to retreat some of your forces over a bridege and then blow it to prevent the germans following you.

this happens: the KV2 sitting in the mid of the bridge and german 150mm art barrage near the bridge lands blowing the eastern part of the bridge. than i blow the western part w/ the KV´s gun. it now was sitting serverall turns there and killing all kinds of german + hungarian inf units ( from one shot i got sometimes up to 7-8 casualities because they were all massing on the western shore of the river ). sadly now german tanks aproach and kill the KV. it had got up to 15-20 more kills only in this scen