Matrix Games Forums

Veterin wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:50 am
I disagree with this. Yes I takes some time to get AFVs on map but it’s very achievable with planning. You don’t actually need to send any of the infantry back to the TB as new formations are raised. You can transfer 3-4 panzers across the rails each turn so If you start late feb/early March, that’s plenty of time for these units to reach the frontline and build up cpp/supply

When do you usually start sending the tanks to the West just for interest, I have a game running pretty close to winter 41 so might as well try your way.

Ideally around turn 17 and 18. That's roughly around heavy mud.

Jango32 wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:21 pm Ideally around turn 17 and 18. That's roughly around heavy mud.

Agree this is ideal time. You should lower TOE to 50% a few turns earlier too as no use spending scarce supply on replenishment for panzers which will end up in the TB shortly after anyway. If you need need some on the map still early Nov to take some objective before winter that's ok but send them off map before the start of Dec 41.

Whilst supply is always a challenge for Axis in 41, you can rail newly arrived infantry to the frontline as they don't take up as much rail capacity (compared to panzers anyway!)

Will certainly try to set it up in that way next game.

By the way is really the winter rules working as intended if optimal play is moving every german panzer to the west?

I thought it was reasonably stupid when moving significant panzer forces to the west was a good choice but this makes it hilariously stupid.

Probably either panzer divisions should be harder to move out or more fun a bit more useful during winter. Maybe both

The optimal Soviet play at the moment seems to ignore attacking during the winter of 1941-1942 altogether and instead make use of that time to grow the horde.

You can easily adjust the game to avoid the first winter effects. (I'm not sure why you'd want to, as they're already quite manageable.) While you're at it, feel free to eliminate the mud penalties, too:

Does it work (at least partially) to simply park the panzers in cities off the normal combat, like smolensk, and just wait it out? Must it be all the way to prussia?

Placing groups of 2-3 units in city or urban hexes, immobile, they should survive - or is it to diminish load on supplies?

Alix2040 wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:34 pm Does it work (at least partially) to simply park the panzers in cities off the normal combat, like smolensk, and just wait it out? Must it be all the way to prussia?

They will still suffer blizzard attrition in cities, just at a lower rate. If you want them in tiptop shape in the spring you'll get them out of the blizzard zone altogether. Just don't put them in Axis Reserves as they'll come back with no trucks and may never build up to full complement again.

I am sorry up front but every time I read this forum post by "Mike Donner" I get an instant recall of the "Donner Party" that died in a blizzard going to California in 1846 resorting to cannibalism to stay alive. Again sorry but that is the picture that comes to my mind.

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 11:09 am I am sorry up front but every time I read this forum post by "Mike Donner" I get an instant recall of the "Donner Party" that died in a blizzard going to California in 1846 resorting to cannibalism to stay alive. Again sorry but that is the picture that comes to my mind.

Winter certainly ruined the Donner Party's game...

K62 wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:05 pm You can easily adjust the game to avoid the first winter effects. (I'm not sure why you'd want to, as they're already quite manageable.) While you're at it, feel free to eliminate the mud penalties, too:

mild winter.png

Could you please provide the link for downloading this Editor? I might be interested in editing into the game the capability for a mild winter. Thanks.

Champagne wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:24 pm

K62 wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:05 pm You can easily adjust the game to avoid the first winter effects. (I'm not sure why you'd want to, as they're already quite manageable.) While you're at it, feel free to eliminate the mud penalties, too:

mild winter.png

Could you please provide the link for downloading this Editor? I might be interested in editing into the game the capability for a mild winter. Thanks.

see attachment.
Numbers are clicks.
Scenario Name-field has to be renamed (Step 7-8).
I guess click 6 is needed (not 100% sure). There after clicking make sure it says "YES" (if it's needed).

After this just start a new campaign using this Scenario.

Before I say my piece on this one, I just want to say IMO this is a great game and the best anyone will see on the Eastern Front.

I too was appalled to watch my army literally melt away during the first winter I played, when I thought I had prepared well for it. The whole army was stopped at the end of September after capturing Moscow, so they were well dug in with fortified locales in weak areas by the time the first blizzard hit, and I had well stocked depots right up close to the front lines. Ultimately though the result was the same as historical, as the unit strengths rapidly deteriorated and the line gave way all over the place. Moscow had been recaptured by mid January and there was no end in sight to the retreat so I gave up that game. Since then, as I was unaware of the editor option, to balance things I would play the same but revert the Soviet side to human for the month of December. That way there were no attacks until the start of January when I set it to computer AI again. This is not ideal by any means, but I felt it was more balanced. I still had a battle to hold the line during winter, but I had a chance to hold.

IMO I think the fact the Germans kept attacking into winter contributed greatly to their winter problems, as that ensured they had no time to prepare for it. It was an act of desperation I think after they realized the Kiev hook wasn't decisive, and they were asking for what happened. If they had instead kept going for Moscow in August/September (like most of the generals wanted) I think they would have captured it before the mud period, then dug in to negotiate peace. The priority for the army then would have been getting comfortable for winter, so there would have been more transport space allocated to winter clothing etc. I know David Glantz recons they would have been thwarted by a flank attack from the south, but I think the Germans had already considered it and would have handled it. Generals like Guderian were on the spot and had no hesitation on going for Moscow, and that was the original plan.