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It's definitely hopeless for Turkey as long as their navy is essentially cannon fodder for Greek submarines. The absolute freedom of movement over sea prevents Turkey from reinforcing Cyprus and allows Greece to redeploy all its garrisons to the front as well as giving it the possibility of hitting Istanbul proper.

Despite this, I still think Turkey played poorly: there was clearly not enough artillery preparation before the frontal attacks in Thrace, and neither were sufficient troops shipped to Cyprus in the first days before their navy got killed off.

StuccoFresco wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:32 am It's definitely hopeless for Turkey as long as their navy is essentially cannon fodder for Greek submarines. The absolute freedom of movement over sea prevents Turkey from reinforcing Cyprus and allows Greece to redeploy all its garrisons to the front as well as giving it the possibility of hitting Istanbul proper.

Despite this, I still think Turkey played poorly: there was clearly not enough artillery preparation before the frontal attacks in Thrace, and neither were sufficient troops shipped to Cyprus in the first days before their navy got killed off.

I feel like this had to do with riris being himself Greek, which he could have made some on-purpose mistakes Although i may just be bullshiting

broccolini wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:07 pm p1.pngp2.pngp3.pngp4.png

Btw i have a question about the scenario. As a greek i love the scenario and i have atleast played 20 times however there is something that bothers me about Turkey and Greece.
I feel like Turkey is way too weak and also their navy is a total joke, their ground forces are meh and their airforce is alright. Meanwhile greece is better at all three. Playing as turkey ive never managed to get really past maritsa, and at cyprus the most is just i pushed them some hexes. (Greece military irl is not weak infact its really strong but the way Turkey is potrayed seems too good to be true, in the 2004 scenario they are even worse which on numerous occasions ive reached constantinople)

Well, I have only played this once and it turned out as above. I talked to the scenario designer (Harris Riris) about how the Greeks seem to be too powerful for the Turks. He is convinced that the two sides strengths correctly match his research into both militaries for the time. Particularly the S-214 and how the Turks have no answer for it. If you have some research of your own to add I would contact Harris and talk to him about it. I'm sure he would be interested in seeing it and make adjustments as required.

Regards

Well i have a suggestion for an adjustment. I feel like both Greco-Turkish troops (beside shock forces and SOFs) have a really high combat readiness than what they actually have in real life.

PS: The Black Sea Turkish navy does not really move

In my much, much younger days I was a pilot, served three years in Greek air force so I really enjoyed this aar! I would be grateful if someone could direct me to where I can download this scenario, thanks.

ASPARTANSPEAKS wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:22 pm In my much, much younger days I was a pilot, served three years in Greek air force so I really enjoyed this aar! I would be grateful if someone could direct me to where I can download this scenario, thanks.

I can send it to you. Just PM me a email address.

broccolini wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 4:20 am

ASPARTANSPEAKS wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:22 pm In my much, much younger days I was a pilot, served three years in Greek air force so I really enjoyed this aar! I would be grateful if someone could direct me to where I can download this scenario, thanks.

I can send it to you. Just PM me a email address.

Thanks, I managed to download the scenario from Haris' site.

Thank you for the feedback on the scenario. Just a quick comment on the scenario: The scenario uses the equipment holdings in 2012. As far as I can tell the totals are pretty accurate and the OOB is fairly accurate. I would agree that most units were actually under strength in 2012 and that is not reflected in the scenario and is nearly impossible to determine.
I agree the modern Greek subs are overpowered but that's also a fundamental problem with TOAW naval combat. My tests show that intercepting naval units are much more effective than attacking units and have a huge advantage. Also, if a naval unit has a longer range, they can attack with impunity. So intercepting modern Greek subs will have an advantage. I will gladly use a database of sub-like naval units if someone wants to tackle that problem or if someone can come up with a better way to represent subs (I know that has been discussed in the past with no easy solution). Finally, anti-ship ratings for some aircraft are absurdly low in TOAW allowing naval transport to move easily and without serious casualties.
Any updates to the scenario would be posted here:
https://lok32mk.wixsite.com/toawscenarios