Matrix Games Forums

Duck Doc wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:31 pm Lately, I have finally succumbed to the ravages of time and have been doing some "retro-gaming": hex and counter, turn-based: Decisive Campaigns series and WDS Panzer Campaigns, Panzer Battles, and Squad Battles. For some reason, I feel at home in the genre and there I will stay. It is enough and I am happy. I am amazed at the genius of John Tiller, btw. His games live on.

i had about 6 or 7 JT games, from years ago and they upgraded them for me for free, they are really good. I like the simple move attack sort of play, kinda what all wargames started out like

mainsworthy wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 5:11 pm

Duck Doc wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:31 pm Lately, I have finally succumbed to the ravages of time and have been doing some "retro-gaming": hex and counter, turn-based: Decisive Campaigns series and WDS Panzer Campaigns, Panzer Battles, and Squad Battles. For some reason, I feel at home in the genre and there I will stay. It is enough and I am happy. I am amazed at the genius of John Tiller, btw. His games live on.

i had about 6 or 7 JT games, from years ago and they upgraded them for me for free, they are really good. I like the simple move attack sort of play, kinda what all wargames started out like

The Tiller game engine allows massive battles with high unit density. All of the calculations are hidden. Just move and fight. Tiller games are not that simple though. PzCampaign manuals run to nearly 200 pages. He designed games/ simulations for the military back in the day and he was a mathematician.

Something occurred to me about old/retro games. Good ones are like fine wine: they don't get older, just better

Duck Doc wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:02 pm

mainsworthy wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 5:11 pm

Duck Doc wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:31 pm Lately, I have finally succumbed to the ravages of time and have been doing some "retro-gaming": hex and counter, turn-based: Decisive Campaigns series and WDS Panzer Campaigns, Panzer Battles, and Squad Battles. For some reason, I feel at home in the genre and there I will stay. It is enough and I am happy. I am amazed at the genius of John Tiller, btw. His games live on.

i had about 6 or 7 JT games, from years ago and they upgraded them for me for free, they are really good. I like the simple move attack sort of play, kinda what all wargames started out like

The Tiller game engine allows massive battles with high unit density. All of the calculations are hidden. Just move and fight. Tiller games are not that simple though. PzCampaign manuals run to nearly 200 pages. He designed games/ simulations for the military back in the day and he was a mathematician.

sorry I over simplified my comment, it was my intention to convey the experience i had last time i played one, I beliebe it was mexican wars, I played a small scenario and grinded it with move and shoot I really enjoyed it. I know JT was a legend and should of been more thoughtful

I don't really know which games you are talking about. There are hardly any strategy/wargames that would have an over-emphasis on graphics. In general, they are simply keeping up with the times (engines), and even so are usually a tad bit aged when compared to other games. First-person shooters seem to be the only ones with emphasis on graphics, but that's a given.

Some time ago I tried playing the Steel Panther World at War again, but just couldn't deal with the low-resolution graphics that looked like pixelated nonsense. Not to mention the frustrating interface. Similarly, it's why I never got into the JT games, just looking at screenshots of the interface gives me a headache. I'd never choose to play the first Civ over the latest iteration.

But there are naturally exceptions to these rules. I prefer Settlers 2 over any other title in the selection. Caesar 2 likewise. battlefield 1942 is still one of the best shooters, though now outdated. This is obviously selection bias. I don't remember even remember the FSP, RTS, or strategy/wargames that I tried and which sucked. Not every old game was gold, and there are a lot more games launched now. Just like with music, books, and any other form of entertainment - most of it is crap.

Karri wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 8:12 pm I don't really know which games you are talking about. There are hardly any strategy/wargames that would have an over-emphasis on graphics.

Look up Total War series. And there are few more too.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/8397 ... nix_Point/

Kuokkanen wrote: Thu Sep 21, 2023 3:40 pm Look up Total War series. And there are few more too.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/8397 ... nix_Point/

I've played the Total War series quite extensively. The graphics are obviously better than previous entries, but that doesn't mean that other parts are worse off. Or worse off because of graphics. Phoenix Point overpromised and underdelivered, but it's not because they were stuck perfecting the graphics...and on the whole, these games don't really have graphics that could be considered beyond current tech. Especially with the Total War series, as it's a Triple-A production.

And if we look at Matrix Games titles...there's certainly no over-emphasis on graphics in titles old or new.

OP gave Panzer Corps 2 as an example, and it is a considerable upgrade from the previous titles. Not a bad one either. In this case, they deviated considerably from the original gameplay style, which I think is the real problem. But was that because of whizzing graphics? I doubt it.

If topic interest about Tiller games I can not say much. But wargamimg lacks proletariat to cavalry such as in Semyon Budyonny in RCW. Lacking great diversity in wargames. I watch time to time about new ones but nothing interesting yet..

@mainsworthy

"sorry I over simplified my comment, it was my intention to convey the experience i had last time i played one, I beliebe it was mexican wars, I played a small scenario and grinded it with move and shoot I really enjoyed it. I know JT was a legend and should of been more thoughtful"

Absolutely no offense taken and I appreciate your take on things. I was just paying homage to a great developer (like a number here at Matrix) and a great gaming system, as old as it is. Carry on,

Karri wrote: Thu Sep 21, 2023 3:49 pm on the whole, these games don't really have graphics that could be considered beyond current tech. Especially with the Total War series, as it's a Triple-A production.

And still my old setup, which played Crysis smoothly at HD resolution all maxed out, choked with Phoenix Point and HBS BATTLETECH. Now imagine newest Unreal Engine running a Total War game or equivalent at 4k resolution with ray tracing. Do you really want such a game any time soon?

Kuokkanen wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:06 pm And still my old setup, which played Crysis smoothly at HD resolution all maxed out, choked with Phoenix Point and HBS BATTLETECH. Now imagine newest Unreal Engine running a Total War game or equivalent at 4k resolution with ray tracing. Do you really want such a game any time soon?

Crysis was released in 2007 though.