Matrix Games Forums

Bo Rearguard wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:35 am
Don't forget Japanese balloon bombs. There needs to be Japanese balloon bombing. I can't believe how many games have overlooked this critical aspect of WW2.

Was that really critical?

ncc1701e wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2023 9:28 am Was that really critical?

No. I was being flippant. I guess I need to learn to use emoticons.

Outside of a family tragedy in Oregon (which was subjected to a press blackout at the time) the campaign was a dud despite the elaborate resources and planning Japan put into it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu-Go_balloon_bomb

But...if they had used biological agents in those balloons as was once planned...who knows.

jeffk3510 wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:13 pm

Platoonist wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 10:08 pm

jeffk3510 wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 3:44 pm A time sink is a good way to put it. I will always play it when the time permits, but it is very time consuming - I agree. I do think scaling things down will be good in the long run, and I will like it a lot more. It is disappointing to play the game for YEARS, and still be in late 42' early 43' on single day turns. I would like to play Japan in AW as well, but the production system is a whole other learning curve as well.

I do like the production aspect of it for BOTH sides

I will be getting this game, and start on it whenever things slow down here. Kids are very busy with fall sports/school. I really only have time in the evenings, and winter is better for that.

Yeah, WiTP can be very compelling game in terms of the day-to-day action. But the glacial pace of the overall war can grind you down after a while. WPP does move at a much more brisk pace.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Thanks for all the help on this. Like I've mentioned above, I will be getting this or both.

Thanks

I get a lot more out of Warplan Pacific than I ever did with WITPAE. For me — this is the better game.

And don't let the much smaller counter count fool you. There is a lot to learn to play this game competently and more to play it at a high skill level.

If you enjoy the Pacific theatre you won't regret investing time in Warplan Pacific.

DeepTyphoon wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2023 7:13 pm

jeffk3510 wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:13 pm

Platoonist wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 10:08 pm

Yeah, WiTP can be very compelling game in terms of the day-to-day action. But the glacial pace of the overall war can grind you down after a while. WPP does move at a much more brisk pace.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Thanks for all the help on this. Like I've mentioned above, I will be getting this or both.

Thanks

I get a lot more out of Warplan Pacific than I ever did with WITPAE. For me — this is the better game.

And don't let the much smaller counter count fool you. There is a lot to learn to play this game competently and more to play it at a high skill level.

If you enjoy the Pacific theatre you won't regret investing time in Warplan Pacific.

I did go ahead and buy this. I have been playing it some. I am enjoying it so far.

I do appreciate all of the input.

Glad to see you are enjoying it. It was only the 2nd game I coded. I am a solo indie developer.

I rewrote the engine entirely for my next game.

jeffk3510 wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:10 pm

NJ wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 6:51 am I only say WP Europe has the edge on WPP purely because I'm from the UK and can just about remember the elder relatives who were in the thick of it - the Desert War, Italy, Arctic convoys, Pedestal, and even in the fire brigade at home etc.
Both games have a subtle atmosphere difference, with different sets of problems to think about. Listening to your detail on WitPAE I'm glad I didn't stay friends with it!

That's really cool - appreciate you sharing that. My only grandma left talks about being here during that as well. Nothing like as close to it as yours were. She just wanted her dad to come home safely - my great grandpa. Not very many left around at all to talk about that with. I think I read the other day there aren't any members of "Easy Company" alive any more.

WiTPAE will always stay on my computer, and receive turns from me here and there. It's just overwhelming at times.

My favorite of all time is PTOII for the SNES from when I was a kid - still have it/play it. Was fascinated with it. All the KOEI games to be honest.

I will be getting this - thanks for all the information.

We had the exact same childhood. PTOII is what started it all for me and my love for the pacific war. And then yes all those great KOEI games followed. We must be around the same age. Those were fun times...

A very good wargame

Platoonist wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 11:14 pm

ncc1701e wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:31 pm WITE-AE has everything indeed but it is incredibly complex too.

Everything, but over the years players clamored for more. A more intricate land combat system. R&R periods for subs, and crew fatigue ratings for ships. Map scale decreased to 20 NM per hex. The rivalry between the Japanese Army and Navy represented. German raiders and U-Boats. Chinese warlords and factions. Diplomacy. Rice harvests. Road and rail construction. Full Allied production, etc.

It'd probably require a whole other lifetime to play a sequel. But it doesn't seem there will ever be one.

R&R periods for subs? Why not but I don't see R&R periods for ships as well. In the manual, there is maintenance only for airplanes.

Map scale decreased to 20 NM per hex. What is the end goal of this request?

The rivalry between the Japanese Army and Navy represented. There was also one between US Army and US Navy.

ncc1701e wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:34 pm R&R periods for subs? Why not but I don't see R&R periods for ships as well. In the manual, there is maintenance only for airplanes.

In WitP/AE there is maintenance for ships in a fashion. Aside from battle damage they often pick up minor incidental damage in the game just sailing to and fro, not to mention the more serious damage that takes place with collisions and groundings. However, men at sea for weeks tend to need some R & R even if their ships don't. Especially the guys on submarines who don't get to see the sky that often when on patrol. It was mandatory in the USN for sub crews operating out of Pearl to get a two-week hiatus in the Royal Hawaiian hotel. As the game is, you can turn a sub around after refueling and go straight back to attritting the Japanese merchant fleet. Which means it dies at a quicker rate than it did historically.

ncc1701e wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:34 pm Map scale decreased to 20 NM per hex. What is the end goal of this request?

Not really a goal, just an expectation at the time.

The lineage of WitP/AE started with a 2002 game called Uncommon Valor which was set in the SW Pacific. The scale there was 30
miles per hex (which I misremembered as 20 miles) When the sequel War in the Pacific came out in 2004 there was a lot of disappointment over the scale increasing to 60 miles per hex. When news arrived that the Admirals Edition's was in development there was a clamor to return to 30 miles. Well, they got 40 miles instead which still left some unhappy. Of course, they weren't the ones who were going to have to debug and check that gigantic map for errors.

ncc1701e wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:34 pm The rivalry between the Japanese Army and Navy represented. There was also one between US Army and US Navy.

Although the rivalry between the US Navy and Army was serious it seems pretty chummy compared to the IJN/IJA schism which was born of rival clans in the 19th century. If a serious dispute arose in the US military, it got resolved by the Joint Chiefs or in the famous 1944 example where General McArthur and Admiral King were making their case over whether the Philippines or Formosa would be the next target in the Pacific by President Roosevelt himself.

Japan never really resolved its problem with interservice rivalry. Japan's prime minister Tojo was an Army man who gloated when the IJN got their comeuppance at Midway not seeming to realize the implications. Hirohito could have gotten involved but seemed loathe to step into anything until he sensed his throne might be in danger due to Japanese society cracking up under atomic bombardment and naval blockade. The Imperial General Headquarters remained divided into Army and Navy sections, and joint command was never achieved during the war. Both the Navy and the Army maintained their own theater headquarters throughout the war and fought over shipping and materials. Aircraft factories kept separate floors for Army and Navy aircraft development, with armed guards separating the two. It was as if the war was being fought by two scheming enemies rather the sister services of a single nation. Admiral Toyoda in the squabbles over divvying up scarce strategic materials began publicly referring to the Japanese Army as "horse dung". He stated he would rather his daughter marry a beggar than an Army man.

Probably one of the best examples of this schism was in 1943 when the IJA, getting no satisfaction from the IJN in keeping its isolated garrisons alive contracted in secret with a locomotive company (Hitachi) to build their own transport submarines to supply bypassed army garrisons. Officially known as the Type 3 submergence transport vehicle and known to the Japanese Army as the Maru Yu. They even started designing their own carriers. All this dual and wasteful R & D in a nation with scarce resources.

I can't think of a parallel situation arising during the war where the US Army would literally start building its own ships in secret with a company that had no experience in building ships in order to spite the Navy.