Matrix Games Forums

ElvisJJonesRambo wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:12 pm It's currently possible to have 2 Special Forces (SS) with Germany. Because I had them against U-Me-U and now El Condoro. The German 2nd Strategic Bomber, don't think so.

For sure, the Action Point requirement within the turn needs changed.

There needs to be at least a threat by the Germans to conduct Operation Sealion. All these Attack of the Clone players are conducting such perfect Allied MedFront ambushes. This is a game, need some options.

Agreed - right now Sea Lion is not a possibility partly due to nerf of paras.

ThunderLizard11 wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 5:03 pm

ElvisJJonesRambo wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:12 pm It's currently possible to have 2 Special Forces (SS) with Germany. Because I had them against U-Me-U and now El Condoro. The German 2nd Strategic Bomber, don't think so.

For sure, the Action Point requirement within the turn needs changed.

There needs to be at least a threat by the Germans to conduct Operation Sealion. All these Attack of the Clone players are conducting such perfect Allied MedFront ambushes. This is a game, need some options.

Agreed - right now Sea Lion is not a possibility partly due to nerf of paras.

How so? Airborne units have the same range(s) The only change is this> Paratroops can no longer prepare if they have 0 action points.

The latest changes causes the Paratroops an extra turn at a minimum to get in position.
Thus get spotted, etc.
Meanwhile, the Tripoli + Royal Navy swarm gets gamey MedFront moves.
When Gerry could force march + prep, there's a certain fear factor in England to at least guard something.

ElvisJJonesRambo wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 4:00 am The latest changes causes the Paratroops an extra turn at a minimum to get in position.
Thus get spotted, etc.
Meanwhile, the Tripoli + Royal Navy swarm gets gamey MedFront moves.
When Gerry could force march + prep, there's a certain fear factor in England to at least guard something.

You can still move the Airborne unit and prep. It was the force march that brings the AP to 0 and prepare that was over the top. Way over the top on the East Front too, as folks were force marching into -5 supply, using up all their AP to 0, and then prepping for a jump at the same time. Come on man.
Also, what does this have to do with Med strategies? Is it that now your saying UK players are stripping England because they do not fear a Sealion anymore because of Paratrooper change?

You're forgetting many cases where the Paratroops cannot do squat to prep.
Rain/Mud. Action Points suck. Rails.
Cannot move more than 1 space, in 2 weeks to prep.

Yeah, giving away the surprise takes alot out of SeaLion.
Nobody does it anyways, because Germans lose to Russia.

ElvisJJonesRambo wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 8:50 am You're forgetting many cases where the Paratroops cannot do squat to prep.
Rain/Mud. Action Points suck. Rails.
Cannot move more than 1 space, in 2 weeks to prep.

Yeah, giving away the surprise takes alot out of SeaLion.
Nobody does it anyways, because Germans lose to Russia.

No I'm not forgetting about the weather. Conditions got to be right. Thing is since the Low Countries and France are covered with Paved Roads, you can still keep the Paras hidden inland and move them a few hexes ( even in mud) closer to the channel and prepare.

Assuming most Sealions happen in late summer or fall of 1940, they would have Long Range lvl of 1 at least.
Besides, like you say, Sealions are dangerous anyways. US and USSR mobilization goes up big time, let alone actually succeeding the operation.

After several games I am in full agreement with Elvis that the para nerf was too exreme. Not being able to move or upgrade and prep for jump is ridiculous. Each turn is like a month so should be able to prepare and jump next turn.

Well I disagree that the new version concerning Airborne drop mechanics is too extreme. The older version was so unrealistic as to be absurd.
There were only 4 major (Division/Corps Level) Airborne operations by the WAllies (mostly US) in all of WW2, and only in the ETO.
Sicily, Normandy, South France and Rhine.
For the Axis, it was Crete.
It took a lot longer than a month to get these specialized units, their transport, training, and logistics in order to conduct a new operation.
Also the old way was prone to lots of abuse.
I realize SC games are somewhat abstract, but we kind of want some kind or realism here, don't we?

I loved my paratroopers pre-patch but they there simply too extreme.
As OCB described you could forcemarch them through gaps and do crazy stuff.
Not just capturing cities. Cutting the final rail connection to drop an entire front comes to mind.
They where way too powerful and overused compared to history.
(and just because the LRATs are busted does not mean Paras have to be too)

I have to admit tho, that I am a bit on the fence about the extent of the nerf.
For me it would have been sufficient to disallow Paras the forcemarch+prepare thingie. That was the thing that made them bonkers

Maybe some moderation should be done.
Don't allow Paratroops to force march.

How about what the Top Players do:

Operand German Panzers, dead of Winter, from Rostov to Western France.
Next turn, take out Spain.
Operand back.

The United States rails aren't even connected East/West.

I won't even get started on all the script manipulation, trigger points abuse, etc.