Matrix Games Forums

Fredflak you comments are very valid remarks.

Finding another opponent could in alot of cases be the decisive element in justifying an interest in SL/ASL.

But with the VASL program, you will never have the problem on NO opponents, although playing face to face will always be superior.

I think the only thing I can say to sway you on the subject of complexity, is ASL canoften deliver that level of accuracy most wargames on the computer seem to fail with.
ASL is not immune to quirks though.

But the dollars and cents issue might be a deciding facor enough to matter. I would never pick Steel Panthers over ASL, but that is not to say Steel Panthers is just not a good game, it just isn't ASL.

I am also a champion of Advanced Third Reich being the king of strategy wargames. But then I can also state that sometimes the person has to go with the more doable purchase of Strategic Command. SC is a great game, it is just no A3R

If ASL retains your interest, look into the Steel Panthers game as well.

I have to agree with you on Third Reich.
Just played a quick Fall of France scenario this weekend with the new Avalanche Press Edition just for fun. That game is great, I love Strategic wargames, usually more than Tactical.

And if you didn't know, a new game, Great Pacific War, is in pre-order. It's a Third Reich in the pacific, a stand alone game, but can also be combined with the John Prados's Third Reich game for a mega campaign in both theatre. Really looking forward to that one

As for ASL, I checked out the VASL game, but the problem is also that finding a rule book is really hard. As is finding any modules around here. Would probably try VASL if I could get myself a book.
Was curious tho about it, checked to see if it could support other Tactical wargames easily.

Fredflak wrote: But it did take a drop in my priorities when I saw the rules for that thing. Almost seems to be complex only to be complex, like complexity is a badge of honor of some sort.

Having played both SL and ASL, I really don't think that ASL is complex for the sake of being complex. 90% of the time you use the same 20% of the rule book, with the majority of the rules' length coming from taking care to anticipate every possibility that might come up. Any given scenario may use some percentage of these "extra" rules, and once you know the core infantry combat system, you can probably get by just by brushing up on any rules specific for the scenario.

I don't think MMP is going out of business anytime soon. When I'm over Brian Youse's house playtesting this week I'll check

I started wargamming at 15. Iam 33 now but have had a break for the last ten years.

Yes the SL rules can look complex but most are optional or infrequently used.

The rules themselves do not take too long to understand. The hardest problem I had was/is finding a face to face opponent.

There are clubs out there, but for every member in a club there may well be two others who are not.

The ASL rules can be best summed up as a wargame lawyer in a box

Most of the manual is designed to serve as a "what do I do if" reference.
The majority of the game is run from the first two chapters, and the majority of the first two chapters is not required to run the majority of most scenarios.

That is perhaps the most important thing to remember.

Not playing a night scenario, fine forget all the rules pertaining to it. Not conducting a para drop, fine ignore that section.
Not playing in the desert, fine ignore desert chapter.
Same with Pacific, it only applies if you are in the Pacific.
No Ordinance involved, no need for Chapter c. No vehicles involved, don't worry about Chapter d.

The game WILL have infantry in 99.9 of the scenarios though, so you need to read through chapter a. And the game is played on the boards, so you have to read chapter b.

When isolated to reading through chapters a and b, the ASL manual is not really all that long eh. And with an experienced player explaining it, it takes no longer to get into ASL, than it does any other wargame.

Several chapters are actually just fluff. If you have no intent in using design your own scenario construction methods, the DYO chapter will have no use at all. And chapter H is just a humorous learning tool.

ASL is indeed a very thorough manual, but to say it is a hard manual to read, is like saying a dictionary is hard to use.

Challerain wrote:I don't think MMP is going out of business anytime soon. When I'm over Brian Youse's house playtesting this week I'll check

Well, I really wasn't serious about that. I hope MMP is still strong and healthy. It just seems that there is a lot of shuffling and adjusting going on over there. Hope everything is okay.

I just wish someone would bring the boardgame to the computer Squad Leader was one of my favorites also. Too much fancy graphics games these days and not enough games with thinking required. Thank goodness someone is doing Word In Flames for the computer. WOOT (omg did I type woot, see what they have done to me? lol)

ravinhood wrote:I just wish someone would bring the boardgame to the computer Squad Leader was one of my favorites also. Too much fancy graphics games these days and not enough games with thinking required. Thank goodness someone is doing Word In Flames for the computer. WOOT (omg did I type woot, see what they have done to me? lol)

Have you seen / played Steel Panthers World at War? I originally started palying SPWAW as it was an electronic version of SL.

klink

Ravinhood have you experienced VASL yet?

Anyone that likes SL or ASL probably would have some of the game already or at least an interest in getting it.
And VASL performs all of what a computer was originally supposed to do for a wargamer ie allow us to find opponents we normally couldn't get otherwise.

I think a lot of computer wargame design has gotten side tracked with the love affair of shallow sensory gratification.

The beauty of VASL is that it is the actual boardgame with nothing lost due to computer game concessions. it lacks a solo element unfortunately, but then the person just has to dedicate themselves to playing people.

No I haven't Les, it's the first I've heard about it. I've been lost in this world they call the internet and only recently found Wargamer.com, It's my favorite site now and I didn't even know a lot of the games I've found on there even existed, HPS games, Matrix Games, Strategy First games.

Where can I find out more about VASL?
Also, I have Steel Panthers III DOS version multiplayer but it doesn't work on XP for me. ;(

I'd like to get SPWAW but it's a 420mb download and I'm still on dial-up, heh so shoot me! lol

SPWAW is a very good game, but, it's not SQUAD LEADER. I want a computer Squad Leader like the Avalon Hill version and I would pay top dollar for a conversion and even then buy all the expansion paks for it. It was/is still my favorite board wargame of all times.

I even go back to the days of Kampfgruppe and Battlegroup and Typhoon of Steel and the Euro version of it Tigers of Steel or something like that from SSI back in the 80's that I played on the commodore 64, heh my very first computer wargame was "Knights in the Desert" for the c64, anyone remember that? It came on a "cassette" tape, man how times have changed. lol

Now I resort to playing Combat Mission type games in place of it. I sort of enjoy those also, always did want lil minature army men that actually moved around and carried out my orders. But, even as good as the CM series is, I still want a Squad Leader conversion.....please Matrix...make it so.

Sad thing to tell you Ravinhood, it is VERY unlikely you will see Matrix Games develope a computer game of ASL especially when they are creating Combat Leader currently (you REALLY want to check this out though).

http://www.combatleader.net/main.asp

It will be eventually the successor to Steel Panthers.

Regarding your dial up limitation, this will interest you then.

http://www.wargamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7276

It's my current standing cd offer that eliminates all your troubles. 5 bucks and you instantly have every free Steel Panthers download worth mentioning on a cd.

This is VASL

http://www.vasl.org/

Spend an evening there, you will not regret it. VASL is the ideal solution to boardgaming on the computer (providing you actually have the board game too).

Anyone that enjoys tactical level gaming ala Squad Leader also wants to make sure they have seen the Close Combat series of games. Looks like Squad Leader in real time.
The games are not current, so they have to be found at places like this.

http://www.cdaccess.com/html/pc/closec5.htm

If you haven't visited yet, check out also Warfare HQ, they are also worthy of your time and have an SL/ASL dedicated forum there.

http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/index.php?s=

Thanks for all the links Sarge, very useful, most of them. Unfortunately never got to ASL. Everyone disappeared before we got to the age of ASL and then computer gaming popped up and even SL got left behind. It's been 23 odd years since I played an actual board wargame. I have a large collection, but, thas it, a collection. heh Even have a drawer full of Strategy and Tactics magazines with unpunched games. I liked reading them though.

That's why I was interested in a computerized version of Squad Leader. I wasn't looking for "eye candy" Squad Leader, was looking for an actual conversion of the game and mechanics of the game from years ago.

Combat Leader looks interesting though. I will keep an eye on it, and the Close Combat series of games.

Now a question: SSI put out a game called Combat Leader back in the early 80's, are they going to be able to use that title without any copyright flak?

Les the Sarge,

you said earlier that Squad Leader can be played via VASL as well as Advanced Squad Leader.

I have not yet down loaded to have a look at VASL but could you tell me if there is much of a following for Squad Leader.

Klink

I am not expert enough with VASL as yet myself to answer that decently.

A good choice might be to bring that question over to Warfare HQ though, we have a good bunch of ASLers, and there should be some informed opinions there for you.

http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30

Let me know if you need further assistance.

Thanks Les

Klink