Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Black Cat

Dave

That seem similar in concept, if not design, to what John Tiller/HPS has done with the Panzer Campaign Games in allowing major improvements and mods to be implemented in older titles. ...
I hope so [:)]

Except that HPS does not charge for updates of older titles.

ORIGINAL: elmo3

ORIGINAL: Black Cat

Dave

That seem similar in concept, if not design, to what John Tiller/HPS has done with the Panzer Campaign Games in allowing major improvements and mods to be implemented in older titles. ...
I hope so [:)]

Except that HPS does not charge for updates of older titles.

Are you talking bug fixes or added features that go beyond mere bug fixes? I would be surprised if they add features to an older title that appear in a newer tilte and not charge for it. I for one back the developers 100% on their stance and am very grateful for them doing this.

ORIGINAL: HercMighty

ORIGINAL: elmo3

ORIGINAL: Black Cat

Dave

That seem similar in concept, if not design, to what John Tiller/HPS has done with the Panzer Campaign Games in allowing major improvements and mods to be implemented in older titles. ...
I hope so [:)]

Except that HPS does not charge for updates of older titles.

Are you talking bug fixes or added features that go beyond mere bug fixes? I would be surprised if they add features to an older title that appear in a newer tilte and not charge for it. I for one back the developers 100% on their stance and am very grateful for them doing this.

Well you will be surprised then because the free PzC updates from HPS do indeed include both bug fixes and all new features for older titles. I have no problem with a company charging for this if they need to do it to stay in business. I can always decide to pay or not. With HPS I don't have to decide because they are free.

PS - I'm pretty sure HPS does this with all their series not just PzC, but I am most familiar with PzC.

What I can't stand is when a company makes me buy an "expansion pack" at much more than the guys here are talking about charging in oder to get bug fixes for an older game. One example is Vikings from Creative Assembly which you had to buy to get bug fixes for MTW. Not a chance.

ORIGINAL: Arjuna
One of our beta testers ignored my implied threat not to delay the patch release and found a bug in a new peice of code. I mean some people...[;)]

I know what you feel. Same problem at work. Testers cannot decide to put all 'OK' on test result sheets. They insisted on passing tests and, surprise, they find bugs that we're forced to solve. Damn testers. [;)]
(*)

Ray,
We love you mate.

First the stick, now the carrot.
This guy rocks !! [;)]
Dave, did you take management lessons from this site ?

Cheerio,

JeF.
(*) to be sure that every one know I'm just kidding, I'm partisan of the saying that goes : "a successful test finds an error"

I must confess to not reading Dilbert. He came along after I stopped reading comics ( although I do admit to still reading Hagar occassionally ).[:)]

Elmo,

Yes we will be charging for the updates and yes they will contain substantial new features. I take my hat off to Mr Tiller for providing the updates to his games for free. I don't wish to comment on the extent of changes in his products, but suffice to say that with ours you will be getting at least one major new feature with every new update. To develop these new features requires a substantial investment of time and money and we have to recoup that investment to stay in business. BTW we're not talking big bickies here. Besides I am a great believer that if people do not pay for a product they will not value or respect it. That's one of the problems with demos ( but that's another issue ).

The bottom line is that we will list a set of new features in each upgrade and, as you say, you can decide if its worth upgrading or not.

In regard to bug fixes. Our policy is to fix any real bugs in a patch at no additional charge.

Arjuna

That's fair especially since bug fixes will still be free. I was under the mistaken impression that they were going to be part of the new features package too. Charging for new features is certainly fair as it involves offering something above and beyond what was part of the original game. Most companies do that now, with HPS being one of the few exceptions.

Elmo

I just wanted to say that the support on these forums and from the development team is outstanding. Despite the manual being a bit too small (print wise), I dont have any serious complaints. I think its great that this game was released relatively "bug-free" in the sense it didnt crash or was unplayable out of the box. I have been very satisfied with the product and you guys have definately won yourself a new customer.

Having purchased war/strategy games in the past from Battlefront and Paradox, I would have to say that you guys have done just as good a job, if not better than Battlefront. (BTW, I think Battlefront has done an outstanding job with the CM series). On the other hand, having waited anxiously for Hearts of Iron, I have to say I am a bit dissappointed that I am still awaiting patch 1.06 so I can play the game as advertised...unfortunately it is a year and half since release to get to this point. Of course the frustrating thing about that situation is that when you post about the shortcomings of the product---i.e. unplayable out of the box, you are slammed for "complaining" despite the fact that you purchased a product you have to wait for 6 patches to use!!!

Kudos to you guys for doing it the right way. You are keeping the customer informed---by being pretty open with your timetable for patches and add-ons, as well as info for new releases. Additionally, because you are being "upfront" with the customer, I dont have a problem continueing to support your company...even if it means paying additional to add new features to HTTR. That is a big change/difference from being made to feel bad at Paradox for simply asking that the CTDs be fixed for version 1.01!!!!

Thanks again for all your hard work!!

Yeh, HTTR was real a dissappointment of a game ... a game that installed okay on the first install ... no driver issues and screwed up sound and video ... and worst being about to play for six hours non-stop without a single crash or lock up. I mean when people release a game like that how are you going to get any challenge? All you are left with is simply to play the game. All in all very frustrating and unsatisfactory experience.

But seriously, as a beta tester, I must say that many of the beta builds we tested were much more stable and exhibited acceptable game play than quite a few existing products already in the market place. Of course, there was the time that Dave overtweaked something and my armor attacks were running on steroids during the next beta test cycle.

{Paradox does show tremendous committment to supporting, completing, and enhancing their products following release. But you do have to wonder about the business wisdom of releasing something that cannot stand on its own from the first public release.}

{Paradox does show tremendous committment to supporting, completing, and enhancing their products following release. But you do have to wonder about the business wisdom of releasing something that cannot stand on its own from the first public release.}

Mark-

No truer words were ever written. Too bad they don't think that way over at Paradox. It can be frustrating paying money for a product and still waiting for it to work almost 2 years later. I used the analogy of buying car...buying HOI off the rack at 1.0 was like buying a car from a dealer without an engine...and when you complain about it, the dealer looks at you like your crazy!!!

Anyway thanks for all your help also...obviously good beta-testers really help make a great game!! I can't wait to play HTTR more and get better at it and definately cant wait for the expansion and new series titles.

ORIGINAL: Willard
obviously good beta-testers really help make a great game!!

Too right. Take a bow Panther Prowlers! [:)]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
{Paradox does show tremendous committment to supporting, completing, and enhancing their products following release. But you do have to wonder about the business wisdom of releasing something that cannot stand on its own from the first public release.}

Take it from me, it's publisher pressure that forces them to release at a certain date, no matter what state the games in..

Will the patch be out this week?

Just send a check or money order to:

HTTR Beta Tester Relief Fund
52 Main Street, Suite #409
My Town, My State USA

We will see that your request receives processing in accordance to the size of your donation.

Seriously, I guess Dave will be along in a while with one of his updates.

Matt,

Whatever you do don't send that cheque to the address Mark has provided. It really needs to go to:

Dave's Early Retirement Fund
999 Get Rich Ct
Mugsville ACT Australia

[;)]

On a more serious note, we put out another build late last week. I'm not sure exactly. Life is a bit of a blur at the moment. Far too many late nights working I'm afraid. However, the good news is that my rather overt posturing to the Prowlers not to find any more bugs seems to have finally paid off. [;)] Not one bug has been reported. Further, the auto-testers have been running non-stop here for days without any bugs. So things are looking good. We've forwarded the patch files to Matrix and if all is still well this Wednesday, we'll sign off on the patch. Which is as well because Thursday's my birthday. [:D]

Twenty-One again are we? [:D]

In case I forget, Happy Birthday! Don't overdo the celebrations as there is still 'Crete' and BFTB to work on[;)]

How'd you know? [;)]

Many thanks. Actually, I've been invited to a "launch party" at Irrational Games on my birthday. Irrational are the biggest games company in Canberra and are starting a new project and have invited the Deputy Chief Minister, so hopefully I will get a glass of champagne and they promissed to sing Happy Birthday to me. Now isn't that nice. [:)]

Happy birthday Arjuna don't get too buzzed

Happy Birthday Dave.. For Thursday.

This subliminal trawling for presents is pretty despicable. The lengths this man goes to for personal enrichment beggars belief. First he tries to redirect monies that good folk were going to send to Markshot’s benevolent fund, then he invents a 21st birthday!
Be warned, chaps, these Internet scams are just too much.
Ray