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RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:31 pm
by pad152
I hope disks will be available for sale at the same time as the digital download, not everyone has DLS.
CD vs download version:
The download version will not require a CD, I hope the CD version will not required the CD in the player (unlike UV) once installed.
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:35 pm
by freeboy
[quote]Joel. It is REALLY reassuring to see you guys making your decisions based on putting
the best possible product you can in the box and not giving in to the dolts screaming
to "give us whatever you've got now". Your attitude in this matter is refreshingly
old fashioned..., pride in your product [:-]
The nerve calling all of us impatient, wanna be testers,
dolts.. while I do appreciate Mikes many post I am surprised at the narrowness this attitude reflects.. I am the chief dolt
Give me witp or give me.. well ok that is extreem. Seriously my expresssed opinion to release the game beta does not in any way detract from 2bu3 or matrix, without them and the amazing work effort and commitment to quality gaming uv would not have been upgraded what.. like five times? I have no problem plunking down my cash during the developement stage to say:" I believe in these guys.. in this product" As to MIKE and his ilk, call me a dolt or worse, I stand by my opinion that to me have a playeable beta and trusting in future patches is in my best interest. My hat is off to Joel and all, this game does look fantastic..
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:41 pm
by barbarrossa
ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl
Joel. It is REALLY reassuring to see you guys making your decisions based on putting
the best possible product you can in the box and not giving in to the dolts screaming
to "give us whatever you've got now". Your attitude in this matter is refreshingly
old fashioned..., pride in your product.
While I agree with what he says about not releasing an unfinished product, it's Mike's "charm" that I can do without. [;)]
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:13 pm
by rhohltjr
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
Thought you'd want to know where things stand. ...
(there's a lot there and a lot different from UV). ...
Thanks Joel, I know this has been asked before but,[:'(]... I recall a while back after the UV 2.30 patch was released
you guys were hinting that any further updates to UV might be more along the lines of what is developed for Witp.
Is that still a possibility or has Witp evolved to such an extent that it is not possible?
There is no wrong answer Joel. Thanks to you and everyone for UV and Witp. [&o]
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:15 pm
by Mike Scholl
I believe that you folks "willing to settle for a playable beta" are one of the chief
reasons so many games get released that way,,,. or worse. While the 2by3 crew
have proved pretty devoted to supporting their games, that's not always the case
in the game publishing world. Virtually every game of complexity will find a need
for patches when the general public bends it in shapes never imagined by the testors
or the designers---but it good to find it didn't get sold while the design team was
already sitting on a pile of "fixes" for known problems.
So Kudos to the 2by3 crew for doing it right. And I will continue to believe those
who tried to encourage the "premature" release of the game are selfish dolts for
their efforts and demands that Matrix ship a less-than-best effort just so they can
be "testors" too. That's my opinion. Whether or not "they" like it is not something
that will keep me up nights.
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:52 pm
by freeboy
In a nutshell you make your error,"settle for playable .." no person in this forum wants a playable beta as the final product. I would not expect to "settle " for anything associated with matrix or 2by3. Calling me a dolt or selfish is your liberty, yet in a game that one player stated took 12 hours to input his first turn I will probably play many first turns just trying to "get it right". So my month of waiting, or however long it takes, days or weeks? This time really could be spent learning the nuts and bolts of what we all expect to be a fine game. As for myself it’s about learning and having fun. Do you really think it would hurt the game to be released imperfectly? Maybe it should be tested another year or two then? Ludicrous I know but these issues are not black and white, and while you seemingly want a flawless product I know there is no such thing.. ever. This is not a selfish proposition as you stated, in no way does releasing the game in its current form hurt the game or gaming community, neither matrix nor 2by3 are planning this so it really is a mute point.
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:33 pm
by denisonh
I have to agree with Mike. I think it is a good practice from a business, industry, and (IMO) a gamers perspective.
I think having the public "beta test at large" may create a great deal of frustration for those people not accustomed to all the baggage that comes with Beta testing. I have done it, and it is work. A game of this magnitude is a significant undertaking, especially from a PBEM perspective. It would be doubly frustrating to attempt a "beta" campaign PBEM to encounter bugs, restart, encounter bugs, restart, run 150 turns, encounter bugs, restart, etc.....
If you sign up for it as a beta testor fine. But having it accessible to everyone may have the effect of turning people off to the game due to frustrations and leave with a bad experience and similiar opinion of Matrix games.
I say have the beta done with the proper attention with a dedicated beta team prior to release to ensure that a bug free product is delivered.
The public at large can contribute to future patches through the forum after release focused on game play and "undocumented features".
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:03 pm
by freeboy
Reality check time, I did not post one nor see a suggestion to release except within the last 30 days... the version as is will be nearly identical to what is released, unless a major rework comes up. Within the last thirty days....
After rereading most of the posts, actually what was asked for was a quick release after gold, another impatient "demand"
Mike also misused these words "demands" and "put pressure on", believe me neither Matrix nor 2by 3 are feeling any pressure from the outside, after several years of development the stress to finish assuredly is self-generated. So why the attitude? Do you really think the first hundred hours or so of learning stopping and restarting your solo games will be affected?
Do you really plan on playing email without a good working knowledge of a game, an email game that even in the shortest scenarios will take weeks? ok enough said...
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:19 pm
by denisonh
Reality check?
Who had the attitude?
I simply support the concept of publishing a "finished product". It makes sense for a number of reasons.
The fact that that has been the premise of Matrix from the beginning.
There has been a great deal of discussion about all sorts of exceptions such as public beta, early release, and the like. None of it IMHO contributes to making the game better.
Have a little patience. There has been a number of petulant posts whining about release dates, "are we there yet?", and a number of other self-serving posts that do nothing to assist in finishing the product.
I have waited 4 years, another couple of weeks is a drop in the bucket.
ORIGINAL: freeboy
Reality check time, I did not post one nor see a suggestion to release except within the last 30 days... the version as is will be nearly identical to what is released, unless a major rework comes up. Within the last thirty days....
After rereading most of the posts, actually what was asked for was a quick release after gold, another impatient "demand"
Mike also misused these words "demands" and "put pressure on", believe me neither Matrix nor 2by 3 are feeling any pressure from the outside, after several years of development the stress to finish assuredly is self-generated. So why the attitude? Do you really think the first hundred hours or so of learning stopping and restarting your solo games will be affected?
Do you really plan on playing email without a good working knowledge of a game, an email game that even in the shortest scenarios will take weeks? ok enough said...
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:24 pm
by freeboy
denisonh...not your attitude.. the previous poster boy for manners[:D]
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:28 pm
by Raverdave
ORIGINAL: rhohltjr
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
Thought you'd want to know where things stand. ...
(there's a lot there and a lot different from UV). ...
Thanks Joel, I know this has been asked before but,[:'(]... I recall a while back after the UV 2.30 patch was released
you guys were hinting that any further updates to UV might be more along the lines of what is developed for Witp.
Is that still a possibility or has Witp evolved to such an extent that it is not possible?
There is no wrong answer Joel. Thanks to you and everyone for UV and Witp. [&o]
WiTP has move so far fowared from UV that it is no longer a case of simply "porting" an ungrade across from WiTP to UV.
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:53 pm
by Mr.Frag
Who had the attitude?
Most certainly me! [:D]
Now get along or I'll report a bug and delay the game!!! [:'(]
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:22 pm
by Becket
ORIGINAL: freeboy
it really is a mute point.
Or maybe it really should have been? [:D]
Kidding! I couldn't help it!
I do hate those mute points, though, it's always so hard to understand to know what they are talking about.
I...I can't stop..!!!
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:34 pm
by denisonh
You are an evil man Frag.
ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
Who had the attitude?
Most certainly me! [:D]
Now get along or I'll report a bug and delay the game!!! [:'(]
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:35 pm
by Mr.Frag
You are an evil man Frag.
Funny that you are far from the first to make that statement. [8D]
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:28 am
by Xargun
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
What I don't know is exactly how long Matrix's production cycle is going to be, or how long it will take to get the game ready for digital download. My hope (and David is certainly trying for this) is that Matrix will have games to sell at Origins on June 24 and the digital download will start around the same time. Wish us luck.
I, for one, am planning on going to Origins simply to buy WitP. I am assuming we will have more updates as we get closer to that date so those of us who are planning to buy at Origins will know if it will be there or not.
Xargun
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:23 am
by bradfordkay
Do you really think it would hurt the game to be released imperfectly?
Well, since the published reviewers tend to come down hard on those games which are released imperfectly, it can actually seriously hurt the game's sales to do so. Matrix did open beta testing to members of this forum who had shown that they had the time and willingness to help test the game. While we all know that games will have some mistakes and need patches, I think that you'll find yourself in the minority in preferring that the developers release an unfinished copy. The fewer patches, the better..
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:42 am
by freeboy
Your point is well made regarding reviewers, but my point is simply for myself the game would be "better" now.... timing is the key.. Matrix has already stated that it MAY be available at Origins... so no worries on getting it before June23.
RE: Quick update on development progress.
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:03 am
by rawink
Excellent news!!!!
I wore out my first UV CD and had to purchase a second.. Digital download would be great because I can save the source and not worry about my horrible CD-ROM care and handling practices!
and to some fo you other guys.. this thread was started by Joel to inform us of what is going on with the game and to give us a possible release date.
the fight over releasing a playable beta, while a valid discussion, doesn't really belong HERE does it? start your own thread instead of detracting from the spirit of this one if you don't mind. Then you can argue it for 40 pages if you want.
Congrats!
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:00 pm
by Apollo11
Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
Thought you'd want to know where things stand. For the past few days we've had our programming list down to 1 or 2 items, but something keeps coming up that is important enough to fix. As of this afternoon we sent a version to testers that looked good, but I can't say if something else will come up.
The scenarios have been finished and unless we come up with a major data error, they should be good to go. The artwork is all done now as well.
For the past week we've been editing the manual and this will probably take a few more days to finish (there's a lot there and a lot different from UV). Since the exe needs additional testing on the recent changes, this shouldn't be a big problem.
So in short, we are within days of going gold unless something major develops unexpectedly. My guess is by next Monday we will be completely done.
What I don't know is exactly how long Matrix's production cycle is going to be, or how long it will take to get the game ready for digital download. My hope (and David is certainly trying for this) is that Matrix will have games to sell at Origins on June 24 and the digital download will start around the same time. Wish us luck.
Congrats to all hardworking people at Matrix/2by3 and BETA testers!
[&o][&o][&o]
Leo "Apollo11"