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ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

I think this all started happening when I put all my fighters on airfield attack. But there still are just very few allied planes in the air and the I expected more losses but not this sheesh.....

There's the problem right there... you turned your fighters into bombers.

yea im going to order switch them all from airfield attack to sweep and i will post the difference.

Errr, you need to keep some on escort or you're still going to suffer losses in your vals/kates because they will be flying in alone.

That doesnt explain why so many zeros are being lost though...

Ok here is the difference once i changed all my fighters from airfield attack to sweep. much better results. no more airfield attacks assigned to fighters for me anymore. still hard for me to believe though that 20 allied pilots could shoot down hundreds of aircraft sorry.

Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 126
D3A Val x 126
B5N Kate x 151
E8N Dave x 4
F1M2 Pete x 4
E13A1 Jake x 6

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 4
P-26A x 5
P-36A Mohawk x 4
P-40B Tomahawk x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 8 destroyed, 7 damaged
D3A Val: 19 destroyed, 37 damaged
B5N Kate: 23 destroyed, 54 damaged
E8N Dave: 5 damaged
F1M2 Pete: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
E13A1 Jake: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 16 destroyed, 2 damaged
P-26A: 11 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 20 destroyed, 7 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 61 destroyed, 28 damaged
PBY Catalina: 40 destroyed, 35 damaged
A-20B Boston: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 15 destroyed, 13 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 14 destroyed, 11 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 13, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 18, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 14, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Reid, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Conyngham, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
BB California, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DMS Wasmuth, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1
AP St. Mihel, Bomb hits 1
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Ralph Talbot, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA San Francisco, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
SS Tautog, Bomb hits 1
AR Medusa, Bomb hits 1, on fire


Allied ground losses:
323 casualties reported
Guns lost 11

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
17 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
25 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
23 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
26 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
13 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
16 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
21 x A6M2 Zero strafing at 100 feet
17 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
17 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
20 x A6M2 Zero strafing at 100 feet
23 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
26 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
21 x A6M2 Zero strafing at 100 feet
24 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
24 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
2 x F1M2 Pete bombing at 2000 feet
1 x F1M2 Pete bombing at 2000 feet
2 x E8N Dave bombing at 2000 feet
1 x E13A1 Jake bombing at 2000 feet
2 x E8N Dave bombing at 2000 feet
2 x E13A1 Jake bombing at 2000 feet

ORIGINAL: MadDawg

That doesnt explain why so many zeros are being lost though...

A fighter on airfield attack is carrying bombs. They get slaughtered unless they have an escort.

Makes sense, but wouldnt they dump them when they came into air to air combat though? It looks like that might not be being accounted for here.

Not in UV or apparently WitP, no.[:)]

and finally....here is what happened when i put all of my fighters on escort at 15000....

hmmm...doesnt seem to be much difference between escort and sweep except i destroyed more aircraft using sweep. you would think having my fighters escorting at 15000 would be much better than having all my fighters sweeping at 100 ft but nope!!!! doesnt seem that altitude matters much...

Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 126
D3A Val x 126
B5N Kate x 151
E8N Dave x 4
F1M2 Pete x 4
E13A1 Jake x 6

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 4
P-26A x 5
P-36A Mohawk x 2
P-40B Tomahawk x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 11 destroyed
D3A Val: 18 destroyed, 32 damaged
B5N Kate: 25 destroyed, 79 damaged
E8N Dave: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
F1M2 Pete: 3 damaged
E13A1 Jake: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 8 destroyed
P-26A: 12 destroyed
P-36A Mohawk: 4 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 28 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 15, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 13, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 16, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
CL Detroit, Torpedo hits 1
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Alwin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1
PG Sacramento, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 1
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
14 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
26 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
25 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
25 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
15 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
18 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
17 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
17 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
23 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
24 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
25 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
24 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x F1M2 Pete bombing at 2000 feet
2 x F1M2 Pete bombing at 2000 feet
1 x E8N Dave bombing at 2000 feet
1 x E13A1 Jake bombing at 2000 feet
2 x E8N Dave bombing at 2000 feet
2 x E13A1 Jake bombing at 2000 feet

Yep. The surprise rules keep most of the American fighters on the ground and the escorts won't strafe.

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

Yep. The surprise rules keep most of the American fighters on the ground and the escorts won't strafe.

good point. but you would still think i would have less losses on my side from air combat if im escorting at 15000 ft rather than sweeping at 100 ft.

How much of that was air-to-air? You have rediculous numbers of damaged aircraft, and that reads as flak to me.[&:]

How does the AAR data correspond to real loses on Your ships' screen? Remember, that if You have FOW active, action report are rarely fully true...

If you run historical 1st turn, I think many of the Zeros are set to airfield attack when you make your moves on Dec 8th. I always change it, perhaps in running the combat resolution they're not set that way and it just shows up on the Dec 8th turn. I've always played historical 1st turn and haven't had anywhere near that many losses.

Were Captains Ben Afleck and Josh Hartnett in the mix? That might expain this...quadruple aces when surprised and they still manage to pork a nurse![:D]

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

ORIGINAL: MadDawg

That doesnt explain why so many zeros are being lost though...

A fighter on airfield attack is carrying bombs. They get slaughtered unless they have an escort.

Did the Zero carry any bombs? I didnt think it did, but maybe wrong.

A simulation analysis by 2by3 of the Pearl Harbor attack should be able to generate a statistical distribution of results. They should perhaps run this to see what it looks like.

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Were Captains Ben Afleck and Josh Hartnett in the mix? That might expain this...quadruple aces when surprised and they still manage to pork a nurse![:D]

LOL[:D]

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

How much of that was air-to-air? You have rediculous numbers of damaged aircraft, and that reads as flak to me.[&:]

My thoughts too. His kills go down when he increases the escort because there are fewer planes strafing, i.e., the kills he has are generally not air-to-air but air-to-ground. Despite increased escort, his losses do not drop because the bulk of the losses are from ground-to-air and not air-to-air weapons.

Do you have variability turned on?

ORIGINAL: MadDawg

That doesnt explain why so many zeros are being lost though...

Lost to what?

If they are air to air losses, sure. But my guess is that at 100 feet doing your bomb run most of your losses are to AA.

I don't do 100 foot attacks until a field is surpressed, even if you do have the surprise.

Worr, out

in case noone's noticed yet.......2 or 3 of the CV's start the scenerio with their Zero groups set to "Fighter sweep" and will as a result, strafe the airfields at low altitude. Due to PH's AA level, this is often costly and will greatly inflate your losses and damages

First thing i always do when starting my Turn 1 is i reset all Zero's on KB to "escort" Those crack pilots are too valuable to be wasted strafing an already devastated airfield.

As such, i've rarely lost more than a half dozen Zeros in most cases

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

good point. but you would still think i would have less losses on my side from air combat if im escorting at 15000 ft rather than sweeping at 100 ft.

I believe setting for sweep at 100 feet means that the fighters will fly to target, engage any enemy planes in air to air combat and THEN drop down to 100 feet to strafe. They don't fly there at 100 feet.