Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer

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The only thing Matrix Games is dealing with here, is spoiled gamers that think every friggin game from whack a mole to cutting edge simulations should never exceed the magical sum of 40 bucks.

That is patently ludicruous.

To the $60 whiners, decide if you are really wargamers please. If you can't hack the hobby, pick another hobby.

I have some sympathy with this view...

If you can't/won't afford it, you don't have to buy the game.

There are plenty of other Normandy based wargames - save yourself $10 by getting Tiller's Normandy '44 from HPS!

It's going to be very tiresome if this same debate reappears every time Matrix releases a new game!

It's going to be very tiresome if this same debate reappears every time Matrix releases a new game!

but it's perhaps why matrix have financial problem.

ORIGINAL: 2gaulle

But the game if it is worth 60 is probably worth 70 or 80 as well.

you are funny, like your president. doesn't mater if for you 60 bucks is good. you are convince about the product. Now the question is, does Normandy has been done only for run5 community?

somewhere is like consimworld, it's now a subscription-based model and it have lost more than 80% of the member for 18$...

When your friend made a mistake it's better to tell him

2gaulle please don't joke about that and keep concentrate on the main subject.[;)] Merci beaucoup mais j'achèterai probablement BiN dès sa sortie en espèrant avoir une réponse de Matrix en ce qui concerne ma question qui n'a absolument rien avoir avec BiN mais qui je pense est justifiée...

somewhere is like consimworld, it's now a subscription-based model and it have lost more than 80% of the member for 18$...

When your friend made a mistake it's better to tell him

And when your friend doesn't understand the problem, you tell him.

Do you thhink the cost of running consimworld grows on trees? What some seem not to understand is that it is not a matter of choice between "continuing to provide something for free" and "chargeing 18$ and having only 20% of the members continue.

Its a choice between 20% of the people get to enjoy the srvice for a cost they consider appropriate or NOBODY gets the service and the the site just goes away.

Similar to games. People who compare the cost of wargames to mass market games JUST DON'T GET IT!!!! Why do you think Monopoly costs about 20 bucks and the new Russian Campaign board game costs 80$?

THe size of teh wargame market is so small that you are not going to get vastly increased sales by lowering the price. Game quality determine wargame sales, NOT PRICE. WE GIVE AWAY three games and have a pretty good idea of what the market is. If you have to sell 5 -10 times more games to cut the price in half, the market is simply not big enough to support that.

Computer wargames have been between 30 and 80 bucks for THE LAST 10 YEARS. Content (by time put into them) has at least doubled and the price range has remained constant.

SO same price and more time put in means the guys making ames have had to workd much harder and for no appreciable increase in income per unit time spent working.

We are seeing a time of "testing the nature of" the wargames market. Big publishers said it was dead and gave up on it.

We and few others are giving it anopther chance.

Its up to you to decide if you want professionally designed wargames or not.

That is the choice and that is the issue. Not whether a particualr game should be 39.99 or 79.99.

And be prepared. The price points will not be the same 10 years from now. (Assuming the answer to the above is yes, and professional computer wargames are even available 10 years form now.)

The current "Its raining wargames" situation will not be able to continue if 2by3, SSG, Panther, etc can't make a living.

The next 3-5 years will tell the tale. Vote early and often. One way or another. but be aware of what you are voting on.

If too many of you vote by keeping your wallet in your pocket, teh result will not be "teh compianies attemtps to rip us off are exposed" and you will get 79.99$ games of 29.99$. You will just not be able to get professionally designed games anymore.

The only thing that bothered me about what 2gaulle said to me, was the implication I had a president

I was born in Lachine.

Do I really sound like an American?

ORIGINAL: pterrok

and you'll find a thriving community to support this series.

You don't seem to have caught Gregor's point. Bread rations do not derive from a thriving community. Just as many of you have visions of war game developers working out of glass and steel Microsoft-ish office complexes, it just isn't so.

Granted, in a box with manual I'd have expected BiN to be be $90AUD because it promises a new experience - via download I'd have expected cost savings in print, cardboard, disc, warehousing, packaging, barcoding, tarrifs, legals and haulage of $10-$15AUD. That surprised me.

Btw those who scoff at Digital Download (other than those legitimately with dial-up) remember this. You can buy a game on CD and still need to print its manual because that's life right now. But in most cases you'll still need that disc in your drive to play With Digital Download, you'll be printing the manual but your play will be disc free. That's a nice convenience.

Adam.

Paul I do not appreciate your answerd at all.

more your increase your price, less you will have customer. that's a basic concept in economy.

Now if you only prefer listen happy customer it's your choice. my choice is not to buy from company who do not respect their customer.

read what you have write one month ago

We have a very flexible pricing model with "budget" games like Campaigns on the Danube for as low as 25$ - mainstream games like StarShatter and Massive Assault for 40$ - "hard wargames" games like Korsun Pocket and HTTR for 50$ and "grognard" titles like WitP for 70$.

We think it "more fair" to offer a wide range of "scope" and base the price on the scope and effort that went into the title. WitP is selling fro the same price I bought PacWar for nearly 10 years ago. NOT MANY forms of entertainment have kept at pretty much the same price point for as long as computer wargames have. In the same time board games have at LEAST doubled in cost - largely because of the component costs. Programmer pay has gone up at least as much if not more.

The bottom line is if you want high quality "made in this century" looking games you are going to pay more for them in coming years. We will be offering 3 main price lines - our budget games to include bothe wargames and more mainstream strategy games in the 25-35$ range - our "mainstream" range of "potential mass market titels and medium complexity wargames range for 40-50$ and the "premium" of grognard "hard core" wargames range for 60-70$.

between 40-50 and 60 there are at least 20%. all that is mathematic

byy the way about Consimworld, last year the site have win more money trough donation

ORIGINAL: 2gaulle

Paul I do not appreciate your answerd at all.

more your increase your price, less you will have customer. that's a basic concept in economy.

Good old 'elasticity of demand'. As I'm sure you're aware, less sales does not necessarily equal lower profits or even lower turnover. If Matrix have judged the price point successfully then the 20% rise in price (if we can look at it this way) should result in a smaller percentage drop in sales. This gives a better 'marginal profit' on each item.

ORIGINAL: Paul Vebber

We are seeing a time of "testing the nature of" the wargames market.

Aye Paul.

As a hobbyist I paid $97AUD for WITP. That's a lot hey? Tomorrow I can go to my local war game seller and buy a board game called "USN" for $125AUD. There be the war gaming hobby.

Welcome to the renaissance of war gaming, guys.

Adam.

(PS: I must admit to buying new a copy of Close Combat Normandy recently for $9AUD - full retail. Look at the back cover and you'll see Matel. A brilliant game, hours of tactical enjoyment, the best in the CC stable - but to Matel, surplus stock to be slashed or burned. New packaging for 2004 not even given the marketing care to be labelled playable in Win XP. War gaming c/o Ken and Barbie. Going, going, gone).

Paul I can understand your argumentation and I am a quite happy customer[:)] although I can question about that... I would probably buy BiN as soon as it will be released.[:D]

But could anyone from Matrix answer my question about the VAT problem which occured for UK and Europe online store when I have purchased WitP. I know this problem has been sorted out: nevertheless for those like me who have bought the game during the first week of its release we have overpaid for no good reason. Considering the change of price which has been applied since that moment, I have actually paid a double VAT as the price was already VAT inclusive and I have had to pay another VAT on top.So I would like to know if Matrix plans to do something or not? Thanks in advance and sorry to bother you on that issue. I just need an answer whatever it is...

I don't know to be honest on the VAT thing. Have you sent the details of your situation to David Heath?

Thanks for your reply. Not at all.Could you please give me his email address.

between 40-50 and 60 there are at least 20%. all that is mathematic

BIN is a "tweener" between two APPROXIMATE price points.

The ranges I gave were based on CURRENT game prices at the time. They were in no way "guarentees" of future pricing for any particular product. THe idea is that we have 3 GENERAL price points and each new game will priced on that scale (which will likely creep UPWARDS over time).

Paul I do not appreciate your answerd at all.

I give the facts as I see them to help people understand the situation from our end. If you don't have an appreciation for the other side of an argument, I can present it and let teh chips fall where they may.

davidh@matrixgames.com

our email address generally follow that "first name last initial @..." format

Thank you very much.[:)]

An interesting observation for those saying high price means lost sales.

During the last of the 80s when the bubble broke a lot of furniture stores cut their throats lowering prices in a valiant attempt to outdo the other guy.

It didn't work.

The stores that decided their product was worth X dollars like it or leave it came out of the whole debacle better off than the stores that senselessly slashed their own prices.

Brutal fact of business that we consumers don't always see for what it is.

If we think it is worth X dollars, then we expect to pay X dollars. But that works both ways.

If a game is worth 80 bucks, then selling it for 40 sends out contradictory signals.

I met up with this truth while developing my own business. Just because I cam manufacture a 300 dollar table for 100 bucks doesn't mean it is wise to price it at 100 bucks and laugh at the competition.

A costumer seeing 100 bucks on a table that looks like it should cost 300 is going to wonder what is missing from the picture. Why only 100 bucks? What's wrong with it.

If Matrix Games is wrong and their games are over priced, they will suffer the consequences.

Ibought Highway to the Reich and was lucky on the price. Ipaid 40. It is definitely worth 70 I was lucky, nothing else. The add on will be worth 70 if it is as good.

And if they worked out some notions during HTTR that make it into the next offering, all the better. Just makes me all the more comfortable paying 70 bucks.

I WANT BiN simply because KP did such a great job proving the design.

My only regret, I have located to many things I want. This christmas I don't expect to get the full list of what I want to get.

2005 is going to require a lot of careful savings.

My only regret, I have located to many things I want. This christmas I don't expect to get the full list of what I want to get.

2005 is going to require a lot of careful savings.

I can assure you that you are not the only one[:D]

I have some debts that are due to finally get paid off in a couple of months.

My only fear is my wife will want things for the house more than wargames

ORIGINAL: Hertston It's a fair price (and I'll happily take a download ahead of importing or a long delay for a Euro release anyday), but I'll hang on to my cash for CotA I think. I'm not sure I want two more Normandy games, and I always had a preference for the game formerly known as Battlefields! which I hope won't be too long.

Don't hold your breath too long, mate. [;)]

You bet my money is already on this CotA thing. And former Battlefields! look pretty. But these are months away.

Considering I played TAO2 gratis (as we all can do !), I don't mind the given amount. I can imagine to give 10$ or 20$ for it.

Time and market will tell if the price is right.

JeF.