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Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Great picture for non-picture man...

The picture does inspire awe

I didn't mean the 1st picture in this thread:




I meant the picture "Tiornu" posted:




This was the first picture he ever posted (and he is known as a expert that loves text above picture)... [:D]


Leo "Apollo11"

Leo;

Roger that.

It was a very close call for the Savannah. Look at the red water level line labeled "a.d.". The ship was really down by the bow.

Also..on the action pic...it looks like a spike of smoke exiting from the vents near the superstructure. Truly an amazing picture because of the ferocity of the explosion captured precisely.

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Also..on the action pic...it looks like a spike of smoke exiting from the vents near the superstructure. Truly an amazing picture because of the ferocity of the explosion captured precisely.

Very spectacular photo - similarly dreadful as the scenes showing BB HMS "Barham" exploding...


Leo "Apollo11"

About 400-500 FX-1400's were made. Their successes were spectacular, but their failures were well in the majority. The bomb came with a flare mounted on the tail to aid the aimer.
There was a similar weapon called the Hs293, a genuine guided missile with a rocket engine, which sank the sloop Egret the cruiser Spartan, the destroyer Inglefield, and the escort destroyers Dulverton and Rockwood (CTL). And there was the famous Mistel, though I'm not sure why it's so famous.
The Americans had a couple guided weapons. War-weary B-17's were used in Operation Hermaphrodite, which involved the death of the eldest Kennedy boy. Bat was a guided missile with a radar bombsight. It probably could have developed into a superb weapon if given a chance. It had some successes nevertheless.
The Japanesel, of course, had their own guided missile system.

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

About 400-500 FX-1400's were made. Their successes were spectacular, but their failures were well in the majority. The bomb came with a flare mounted on the tail to aid the aimer.
There was a similar weapon called the Hs293, a genuine guided missile with a rocket engine, which sank the sloop Egret the cruiser Spartan, the destroyer Inglefield, and the escort destroyers Dulverton and Rockwood (CTL). And there was the famous Mistel, though I'm not sure why it's so famous.
The Americans had a couple guided weapons. War-weary B-17's were used in Operation Hermaphrodite, which involved the death of the eldest Kennedy boy. Bat was a guided missile with a radar bombsight. It probably could have developed into a superb weapon if given a chance. It had some successes nevertheless.

Thanks for info!

Again, I find it strange that until invetion os LGB's (Laser Guided Bombs) in 1960's USA didn't experiment and use more of German radio controlled bob delivery in its wars (Korea, Vietnam)...

The Japanesel, of course, had their own guided missile system.

Oh my... this is truly a "black humor"... [;)]


Leo "Apollo11"

ORIGINAL: grossmetzger

here´s a pic of the "ruhrstahl x-1" or "fritz-x" as the bomb was called by the crew.

One of these Fritz's is on display at the National Air & Space Annex at Dulles. Very impressive.

Somebody in Britain wanted to develop a pigeon-guided bomb. He trained pigeons to peck pictures of german warships behind a glass screen, and reckoned that with a pigeon in front looking through a window its pecks could be turned into control movements for a flying bomb.

For some reason, the authorities didn't take him seriously...

According to one of the websites on the Fritz, it said that the operator used a modified "Luka" or "Luda" (don't remember which) bombsight to steer the weapon. The operator looked out the nose while reaching to the right side to guide it.

The US Navy P-3 Orions still used manual wire-guided air-surface missiles called the Bullpup as late as 1983 IIRC. It was designed to engage small surface targets such as a surfaced submarine. The pilot launched it from a range of about 3-4 miles and then used a joystick attached to his armrest to guide it. The missile had a flare on the back that allowed you to track it visually. The problem with the missile was it took 2-3 seconds for the command from the joystick to translate to action at the missile and then a few more seconds for the pilot to recognize the change. Chances of a hit were fairly remote. I can only remember seeing 1 hit on the 10-15 flights we launched it. The P-3 had to remain heading inbound at a slow descent during the entire time. Anyone with a AK-47 could have shot us down.

Another problem was the missile was almost as dangerous to the airplane as it was to the target. VP-49 once had one come off the wing and fail to ignite for about 5 seconds. By that time the plane was ahead of it. When the rocket lit, the missile zoomed under the wing and went ballistic. It missed the wing by less than 10 feet!


Chez

Also, don't forget that the RAF used precision munitions anyway - Tallboys and Grand Slams!

Steve.

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

Somebody in Britain wanted to develop a pigeon-guided bomb. He trained pigeons to peck pictures of german warships behind a glass screen, and reckoned that with a pigeon in front looking through a window its pecks could be turned into control movements for a flying bomb.

For some reason, the authorities didn't take him seriously...

those bombs were actually built and worked better than the early radar guided ones..

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

Also, don't forget that the RAF used precision munitions anyway - Tallboys and Grand Slams!

Steve.

What do you mean "precision munition"?

As far as I know those were just ordinary iron bombs (but _MUCH_ bigger than standard ones) and they were droped from high altitude by expert crews to achieve max penetration...


Leo "Apollo11"

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

But, sadly, just about impossible to model in WitP...

[&:]Why just about impossible to model? [&:] If Witp has the Okha why would a simulated radio controlled air dropped bomb be impossible. Less percentage of a hit than the human guided Okha? So what.

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
...

strange enough that Allies didn't try to emulate it into primitive guided bombs of their own (the first mention of combat usage of US guided bombs, as far as I know, are against some North Vietnamese bridge in 1960's - which is 20+ years later)...

Please check this out

http://biomicro.sdstate.edu/pederses/asmbat.html

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

Also, don't forget that the RAF used precision munitions anyway - Tallboys and Grand Slams!

Steve.

What do you mean "precision munition"?

As far as I know those were just ordinary iron bombs (but _MUCH_ bigger than standard ones) and they were droped from high altitude by expert crews to achieve max penetration...


Leo "Apollo11"

Modern laser guided precision bombs are straight iron bombs with the 'added value' of guidance packages essentially strapped on... I guess that in the case of 617 and 9 Squadrons the 'added value' would be the aircrew skill. [:)]

More seriously, I agree that you have correctly characterised them - but the accuracy achieved was remarkable.

Steve.

ORIGINAL: rhohltjr

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

But, sadly, just about impossible to model in WitP...

[&:]Why just about impossible to model? [&:] If Witp has the Okha why would a simulated radio controlled air dropped bomb be impossible. Less percentage of a hit than the human guided Okha? So what.

So far as I'm aware the WitP PGM model doesn't work.
Steve.

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

So far as I'm aware the WitP PGM model doesn't work.
Steve.

Is there a Witp PGM model? If so, why so much trouble with it? Is there a model for skip bombing which seems to work? Isn't it really just a play on the weapon accuracy derived from the weapon/device part of the database??? Hmmm.[&:]

ORIGINAL: rhohltjr

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

So far as I'm aware the WitP PGM model doesn't work.
Steve.

Is there a Witp PGM model? If so, why so much trouble with it? Is there a model for skip bombing which seems to work? Isn't it really just a play on the weapon accuracy derived from the weapon/device part of the database??? Hmmm.[&:]

There is in the database...[;)]

Steve.

ORIGINAL: String

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

Somebody in Britain wanted to develop a pigeon-guided bomb. He trained pigeons to peck pictures of german warships behind a glass screen, and reckoned that with a pigeon in front looking through a window its pecks could be turned into control movements for a flying bomb.

For some reason, the authorities didn't take him seriously...

those bombs were actually built and worked better than the early radar guided ones..

Early field trials

Cap, you should be sure to add the following disclaimer:

"No pigeons were harmed in the production of this comic. Maneuvers were performed by a professional pilot on a closed course. Do not try this at home."

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Cap, you should be sure to add the following disclaimer:

"No pigeons were harmed in the production of this comic. Maneuvers were performed by a professional pilot on a closed course. Do not try this at home."

There was a movie a few years ago that had the disclaimer "Only a few animals were injured in filming this movie".

EDIT: Okay, okay, they did it for laughs. Later on in the credits, they said "We were only joking. No animals were harmed, etc."

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Cap, you should be sure to add the following disclaimer:

"No pigeons were harmed in the production of this comic. Maneuvers were performed by a professional pilot on a closed course. Do not try this at home."

Very well. No pigeons were harmed in the production of this comic. Maneuvers were performed by a professional pilot on a closed course. Do not try this at home.

PS..they taste like chicken [;)]