Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

You only need to get a cadre out.

Telling people to game the system eh?

This is the very first thing I will trash in 1.6 so enjoy it while you can.

Great! This one needs to go!

I agree, I don't even use my subs for transports. I used the AK's there to transport the Brass. Heck, you can't argue with the CIC. gamey or not, I try save any HQ I can.

This is ridiculous. I cant believe that people are seriously considering this. I am as much for getting rid of the BS, 1 squad pullouts from the PI as the next guy. But what Frag is proposing is just plain lunacy that cannot be accomplished with this game engine without screwing up 15 other things.

Suppose I have a unit that took legitimate combat damage. I cant reconstitute it?

Suppose I loaded a unit onto 3 APs and an APD and all the APs got sunk. I cant reconstitute that either?

What if I divided a unit, 2 of the subdivisions were destroyed and the last one went below 15%, all in the same attack? I'm screwed then also, huh?

As far as I'm concerned, if you paid the PPs to change the HQ of an entire unit, you should be free to do with it as you damned well please. If you can evac the whole thing, great. If you can only pull out 3 men and the HQ company's coffee maker, them's the breaks. As I mentioned above, if you programming wizards can figure out a way to make it so that none of the units in the PI can change HQ, I'm all for it. But please, for the glory of god, dont start screwing around with something that works just because you can't settle on what's fair or not. Like Bradford said, this can be easily handled with house rules, and if your PBEM opponent doesnt mind, then it doesnt matter. I know for a fact that the AI I play against doesnt give a flying f@ck, and if I ever decided to give it a sporting chance, I wont pull 'em out.

Hi everyone [:)]

hithere

my 2 cents is that the unit have the option to disband and re appear in 2 years. (or how ever long you would say to retrain a division) I know the U.S. Army is looking at adding a couple new div and they are saying about 4 years to fully outfit them with soldiers (notice the political correctness) and equipment.

When you allow units to respawn, as was historical, I'll stop pulling cadres. Make them reform by drawing units from the pool in the 365 days or whatever. But completely annialating them and then preaching that it's gamey, is a bit hypocritcal.

-F-

Maybe we can automatically disband small fragment LCU, devices back to pool and then reform xxx days later like air groups.

You would not want to let the parent units disband, since it would then lead to people "disbanding" LCUs just before a battle they couldn't win and thus not give VPs to other side.

Mr.Frag
This is the very first thing I will trash in 1.6 so enjoy it while you can.

I don't think this means that there isn't a proper method to handle this situation that can satisfy most people.[:)]

Michael

You would not want to let the parent units disband, since it would then lead to people "disbanding" LCUs just before a battle they couldn't win and thus not give VPs to other side.

that is another reason to make the wait time long. also, maybe make it so that LCU's can only be disbanded in the area HQ, ie; Brisbane, San Fran, Karchi, etc. that way they would also have to travel the distance, unless the allied player is not doing well! [:D]

ORIGINAL: hithere

my 2 cents is that the unit have the option to disband and re appear in 2 years. (or how ever long you would say to retrain a division) I know the U.S. Army is looking at adding a couple new div and they are saying about 4 years to fully outfit them with soldiers (notice the political correctness) and equipment.

This is a very good idea. I have some additional suggestions:

1. you can disband LCU unit. (This should cost some PP - public opinion would be very negative if you do such things). Opponent gets points for disbanded units (you leave equipement in enemy territory, most of the soldiers will be inprisoned)

advantages: - you can rebuilt this unit (ok, we can debute if all units can be disbanded or just US and Brits; doesnt matter now)
- your opponent can not use isolated units for easy combat training of his pilots

Why does that sound like killing the patient to cure the desease?

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I've pointed out to Frag before that among the troops evacuated from the PI were the mechanics, both aircraft and naval. Obviously, these were not the whole units, but just a cadre of them. So he now wants to prevent us from being able to do what was historically done.

Many of us do not grab tiny portions af all units so they can be rebuilt, but we do grab tiny portions of a couple of important support units. This is certainly a pretty weak method of gaming the system, especially when what Frag is complaining about is easily handled by house rules.

If I read what Frag said correctly, he has already mentioned that the units that historically were evacuated are already represented in the game. So technically, if you leave them in the PI, you will still receive them as part of the normal replacements/reinforcements. If you pull them out of the PI, you will have created the "War of the Clones".

If you pull them out of the PI, you will have created the "War of the Clones".

Glad someone actually understands me [:D]

advantages: - you can rebuilt this unit (ok, we can debute if all units can be disbanded or just US and Brits; doesnt matter now)
- your opponent can not use isolated units for easy combat training of his pilots

Can You say Wake? The Us used wake as a live fire exercise area with the Japanese troops left to "wither on the vine" for several years. This was a way to "blood" green pilots before sending them on forward. Several other areas were used for this purpose also.

Instead of your suggestion MR Frag how about IF HQ=ABDA or USAFFE then PP=PP*10 to change HQ. If some one wants to take that hit ok with me if they fell that unit is that important to pay the cost let them save it (even a small cadre). I think that alone will stop most of what most people feel is "gamey" The only problem is those units in Southeast Asia since that is a non restricted command. maybe pry can add a new HQ for Singapore and make it a restricted command and add it to the suggestion above.

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

This is the very first thing I will trash in 1.6 so enjoy it while you can.

Wow, Frag just promised us 1.6 patch.
I am going to keep his message in a safe place, as evidence.
[:'(]

If some one wants to take that hit ok with me if they fell that unit is that important to pay the cost let them save it (even a small cadre)

Last I checked, this was supposed to be a historical war game, not a RTS with a Base Force/HQ machine where you pop units out of. I can not believe that Allied players with their overwhelming advantages are such whiners. Perhaps we need to advance Japan's OOB by a year to make up for this play style.

Lets all go play Blizzard's new "Clickfest in the Pacific" [8|]

quote:

If some one wants to take that hit ok with me if they fell that unit is that important to pay the cost let them save it (even a small cadre)

Last I checked, this was supposed to be a historical war game, not a RTS with a Base Force/HQ machine where you pop units out of. I can not believe that Allied players with their overwhelming advantages are such whiners. Perhaps we need to advance Japan's OOB by a year to make up for this play style.

Lets all go play Blizzard's new "Clickfest in the Pacific"

I think Frag is right, the <15% rule would only slow an allied player down for a month or 2 , after that he still gets his unit bonanza...

Look at the formula I propose: PPx10 if a ADBA OR USAFFE... That is a huge (and maybe impossible in time) to save amount to remove any large formation at least you won't see massive evacutations but if there was a unit you needed to save you could re build it. Hey the USA "rebuilt" SWPAC by evacuating a cadre.

It would also help if the PP calculation was based on TOE not current unit size.

It is not so far out in left field that politics could have influenced the decisions on when to withdraw what and when. The question is what is the cost. I like the restricted comands in the DEI and PI I just do not think the cost is high enough but I do think you should still be able to remove some units (even a fragment) if you are willing to pay a high enough price.

BTW 3 of my 4 games is as the IJN

I'm a lover not a whiner, Sir !!

ORIGINAL: ltfightr


Instead of your suggestion MR Frag how about IF HQ=ABDA or USAFFE then PP=PP*10 to change HQ. If some one wants to take that hit ok with me if they fell that unit is that important to pay the cost let them save it (even a small cadre). I think that alone will stop most of what most people feel is "gamey" The only problem is those units in Southeast Asia since that is a non restricted command. maybe pry can add a new HQ for Singapore and make it a restricted command and add it to the suggestion above.

You could make Singapore ABDA instead of SE Asia.