Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Good advice! I've seen him when he gets a bit riled up [:D]

So, now are the two of you going off to play snugglebunnies, nestle like spoons, pull out his joystick, and play your favorite computer wargame, "Whakski the Pasternakski"?

The reason I comment, for those who actually read my posts instead of treating me the way white women always did before I figured out what it was I hated about white women (including white men who might as well be white women), is that I would like to buy and play computer wargames that are competently designed and FUN.

Without having to put up with public giggling at my expense behind my back while I'm watching ... or something ... and, Rhonda, you haven't "seen" me ... or are you likely to ...

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Good advice! I've seen him when he gets a bit riled up [:D]

So, now are the two of you going off to play snugglebunnies, nestle like spoons, pull out his joystick, and play your favorite computer wargame, "Whakski the Pasternakski"?

The reason I comment, for those who actually read my posts instead of treating me the way white women always did before I figured out what it was I hated about white women (including white men who might as well be white women), is that I would like to buy and play computer wargames that are competently designed and FUN.

Without having to put up with public giggling at my expense behind my back while I'm watching ... or something ... and, Rhonda, you haven't "seen" me ... or are you likely to ...

Pasternakski...I failed to elicit a response on another thread..Your e-mail is "hidden".
I would like to ask you a question ref a possible link in our mutual past.(Long past)...
My e-mail is not hidden.We are both currently on line..Gimme a hit..Bob

Ah, another Moby Dick thread.

ORIGINAL: Hartley

Ah, another Moby Dick thread.

Hey - penicillin cleared that up for me a long time ago.

It's the grape nuts that worry me now...

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

The reason I comment, for those who actually read my posts instead of treating me the way white women always did before I figured out what it was I hated about white women (including white men who might as well be white women), is that I would like to buy and play computer wargames that are competently designed and FUN.

The problem is that I DO read your posts; or did, until I discovered that you're rerunning the same basic one...

It is good that you have a wargamer's club with the money and facilities to enjoy good board wargames. Most of us are not so wonderfully endowed, and so have had to make our decisions based upon what works in our lives. While WITP has its flaws, I have a chance of completing a full campaign in WITP, whereas if I were to set up USN or Victory Game's WITP I would probably get no more than a week or month into the game before it either: a) became destroyed by Typhoon Kitty or b) I became bored with having to play (and thus know the strategy for) both sides. WITP is the best computer Pacific War game going, and so it will continue to be the game that I will play more than any other. I can accept its flaws, just like I accepted the flaws in many board games, because I enjoy playing it. I'm sorry that it didn't turn out the way you wanted, Past, but I refuse to feel mentally inferior because I enjoy WITP.

Hi, I began on boardgames and moved to computers as soon as I discovered SSI. SPI had been taken over by TSR and switched to making D&D games over wargames.
I have not played a boardgame since I bought my Commodore 64.
I loved boardgames but I can't see ever going back to them. Everygame I liked now has a computer game on the subject that is easier to play.
Things I have never encountered in computer games that I did experiance with boardgames.

1. Opponents starting fist fights over die rolls.
2. the "Obvious blunder rule"
3. Cats (or babies or dogs or gusts of wind, spilled beers, maps catching on fire???)
4. I can't find the "Akagi" counter
5. "WTF does rule 168.5.63.61 mean exactly? With WITP at least you can go ask the designer
6. "I wish I could find someone to play"
7. "There is no room for these maps"
8. "OK I need this room, pick up that game you can set it up again tomorrow"
9. "Screw you it's my game and I quit"
10. "You moved that stack" "No I didn't I just picked it up to count factors it was in that hex, see it can reach this hex and put you out of supply" "No it can't because it was 1 hex back you moved it already"

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
So, now are the two of you going off to play snugglebunnies, nestle like spoons, pull out his joystick, and play your favorite computer wargame, "Whakski the Pasternakski"?

hands off! she's mine! LOL [;)]

Sorry dude, I thought it was a typo.

(In response to Pasternakski)

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I began on boardgames and moved to computers as soon as I discovered SSI. SPI had been taken over by TSR and switched to making D&D games over wargames.
I have not played a boardgame since I bought my Commodore 64.
I loved boardgames but I can't see ever going back to them. Everygame I liked now has a computer game on the subject that is easier to play.
Things I have never encountered in computer games that I did experiance with boardgames.

1. Opponents starting fist fights over die rolls.
2. the "Obvious blunder rule"
3. Cats (or babies or dogs or gusts of wind, spilled beers, maps catching on fire???)
4. I can't find the "Akagi" counter
5. "WTF does rule 168.5.63.61 mean exactly? With WITP at least you can go ask the designer
6. "I wish I could find someone to play"
7. "There is no room for these maps"
8. "OK I need this room, pick up that game you can set it up again tomorrow"
9. "Screw you it's my game and I quit"
10. "You moved that stack" "No I didn't I just picked it up to count factors it was in that hex, see it can reach this hex and put you out of supply" "No it can't because it was 1 hex back you moved it already"

Uhhhh Mog....You forgot:#11. "Hey,what are you doing with that fine-point marking pen?"
and #12. "What's that over there!?"(pointing at the corner in the basement).

And then, of course, there's the old "You kicked the table leg on purpose! Did not! Did too!". And then the scuffle ensues...

ORIGINAL: Terminus

And then, of course, there's the old "You kicked the table leg on purpose! Did not! Did too!". And then the scuffle ensues...

Jeez - you guys are really hard core! I've seen people get upset over a game, but never seen a physical fight over one.

Jeez - you guys are really hard core! I've seen people get upset over a game, but never seen a physical fight over one.

[/quote]


Uhhh yeah...That's why computer games were invented..Somebody decided "long-distance" gaming was safer..
That's why Al Gore invented the internet.......................[:D]

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead

I don't read this forum very often, but on the WiF forum someone hinted at a global version of WitP. Are there plans for expanding to a global WWII game?

This game system is deader than a doornail. With all the problems WitP presented (some apparently insoluble), a proposed game on the Mediterranean campaign in WWII was sh1tcanned, then the announcement was made that, from now on, 2by3 will be exploring other territory, with their "flagship" system being the engine behind GGWaW.

I can't say I'm disappointed any more. I have faced the reality of the situation. I have already tossed UV, and after I get my fill of the current round of PBEM games I have going in WitP, I will likely not be playing it again, either. Too much is wrong, left to accident, and just plain outside the bounds of what I expect from a simulation of war in this theater.

Unless and until someone comes up with a better game, I'll be going back to the cardboard-and-paper games, both the oldies-but-goodies and some exciting new titles by Decision Games and some others.

Amen to the system being dead. I do hope some other company with better resources one day tries this same subject, though they'd better hurry as I'm not getting any younger.

Do you ever play Zucker's stuff?

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn
Amen to the system being dead. I do hope some other company with better resources one day tries this same subject, though they'd better hurry as I'm not getting any younger.

Do you ever play Zucker's stuff?

Not getting any younger? Try being older than dirt's dirt like me sometime. Why, I'm so old, I have to take Viagra just to remember what sex was like.

I tried Zucker's Napoleonic system in AH's Struggle of Nations. It's kind of awkward having leaders on the leader display to indicate that they're subordinate to other leaders. Other than that, I thought it was pretty good.

I used to play the Clash of Arms tactical Napoleonic series, particularly the four games that made up the three days of Waterloo. I can't get anybody at my club to play those anymore, though. They're all hip to that card-driven strategic game by GMT. Nobody hipped me to that.

No one, no company, no individual, no group of programmers, NO ONE will try to make game as detailed, complex and ambitious as WITP in foreseeable future, make it 10-15 years. You may love it, you may hate it but you will not see a game remotely similar to WITP - perhaps not in our lifetime(s).

I am not saying WITP is perfect, all I am saying is I'm ready to place a 100 $ bet on the above statement. Now, if anyone's ready to collect the bets and come back in 15 years [;)]

BTW, I am afraid this may be taken as "personal attack", but I will say it in the friendliest manner possible. Tristan, anyone trying to find the reason as to why it is so (that no one will try to make another game as ambitious as WITP) need not look further than your posts... (Don't get flamey on me now, lest we both get banned [:o], just stating my opinion in friendly manner.)

Oleg

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

No one, no company, no individual, no group of programmers, NO ONE will try to make game as detailed, complex and ambitious as WITP in foreseeable future, make it 10-15 years. You may love it, you may hate it but you will not see a game remotely similar to WITP - perhaps not in our lifetime(s).

I am not saying WITP is perfect, all I am saying is I'm ready to place a 100 $ bet on the above statement. Now, if anyone's ready to collect the bets and come back in 15 years [;)]

BTW, I am afraid this may be taken as "personal attack", but I will say it in the friendliest manner possible. Tristan, anyone trying to find the reason as to why it is so (that no one will try to make another game as ambitious as WITP) need not look further than your posts... (Don't get flamey on me now, lest we both get banned [:o], just stating my opinion in friendly manner.)

Oleg

I don't take offense, Oleg, but why would you say such a thing?

Do you believe the quality of computer games (or any other product on the market, just name one) goes down because of honest and intelligent criticism? Have I somehow persuaded Gary not to design ambitious computer wargames in the future because I've found flaws in this latest Pacific game of his? Did the board-wargame head south back in the day when I wrote professional reviews for that hobby?

I don't think so. What I do think is that you could stand to reconsider your position.

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn
Amen to the system being dead. I do hope some other company with better resources one day tries this same subject, though they'd better hurry as I'm not getting any younger.

Do you ever play Zucker's stuff?

Not getting any younger? Try being older than dirt's dirt like me sometime. Why, I'm so old, I have to take Viagra just to remember what sex was like.

I tried Zucker's Napoleonic system in AH's Struggle of Nations. It's kind of awkward having leaders on the leader display to indicate that they're subordinate to other leaders. Other than that, I thought it was pretty good.

I used to play the Clash of Arms tactical Napoleonic series, particularly the four games that made up the three days of Waterloo. I can't get anybody at my club to play those anymore, though. They're all hip to that card-driven strategic game by GMT. Nobody hipped me to that.

Actually, the Clash of Arms stuff was just the sort of system I had in mind when I pictured you and your friends hunched over a gaming table. They don't like to play tactical Napoleonics fare? What kind of board wargamers are they? More strategically oriented? Would they be able to appreciate Europa or something of that nature?

Zucker's a kind of design genius, though I'm not sure he's gone anywhere special since his hey-day. A pretty good writer, too.

His SoN was one of those "breakthrough" efforts you made reference to above. The tracks were a bother, of course, but how else to keep track of on-map leader strength? What I really appreciated were the rules for facing and out-flanking movements that he introduced in that system. I wish he'd expored that facet of play further.

All in all I'd say that was one of the most sophisticated games AH ever published.

Your criticism is honest, but I would not call it necessarily intelligent. It usually comes out as malicious and whiney (at least to me, and I am sure to many others as well). Sometimes (often) even nitpicky.

Faced with such criticism (and you're not alone in that), what do you think it takes for a company to realise it's much more profitable, less unnerving, easier to make - lets put it mildly - "less demanding" games than WITP.

Most of WITP customers belong to "hard to please" cathegory. Extreme examples like yourself belong to "very VERY hard to please" or "impossible to please" or "never satisfied" cathegory. Would you like to depend on such customers for your living?

O.

ORIGINAL: m10bob

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I began on boardgames and moved to computers as soon as I discovered SSI. SPI had been taken over by TSR and switched to making D&D games over wargames.
I have not played a boardgame since I bought my Commodore 64.
I loved boardgames but I can't see ever going back to them. Everygame I liked now has a computer game on the subject that is easier to play.
Things I have never encountered in computer games that I did experiance with boardgames.

1. Opponents starting fist fights over die rolls.
2. the "Obvious blunder rule"
3. Cats (or babies or dogs or gusts of wind, spilled beers, maps catching on fire???)
4. I can't find the "Akagi" counter
5. "WTF does rule 168.5.63.61 mean exactly? With WITP at least you can go ask the designer
6. "I wish I could find someone to play"
7. "There is no room for these maps"
8. "OK I need this room, pick up that game you can set it up again tomorrow"
9. "Screw you it's my game and I quit"
10. "You moved that stack" "No I didn't I just picked it up to count factors it was in that hex, see it can reach this hex and put you out of supply" "No it can't because it was 1 hex back you moved it already"

Uhhhh Mog....You forgot:#11. "Hey,what are you doing with that fine-point marking pen?"
and #12. "What's that over there!?"(pointing at the corner in the basement).

Lets not forget one other immortal point too. TIME! I still have a pang for a lot of board games (still have several in the closet). Point I make is they STAY in the closet simply because I don't have 4 hours to setup one of them and god knows how many hours to get through a handful of turns. I've always applauded the effort of 2b3 and Matrix for taking on the monster that is WiTP, but hey... I've said this before too. Its a game! If we all wanted a 100% perfect history simulator, someone would have invented a time machine with "invisible god-mode" built in so you could watch any aspect of the pacific war at least in the 2nd or 3rd person and root on our favorites.

Silly as it sounds, a lot of the "knit-picking" I read on the forum lately sounds like thats what folks want. ABSOLUTE perfection seems to be what folks want. I was around when the release date was getting close and folks had the itch for this game SO bad that no amount of scratching was going to help.

Heinsight being what it is, it doesn't bother me that maybe we're not quite to the level of detail we'd like. But hey, when you look at this monster objectively, we're not far off. It is only a game afterall and when you consider the effort to even make it? Lordy! [X(]

So as it is, the boardgames will keep collecting dust, and I'll keep rolling dice on pc-based wargames. A, cause I love em, and B, they save me a TON of time! Sail on lads! [8D] I'm still waiting on my first turn from Fallshirmsjager. LOL! [>:][;)]