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That was built during the war? That will teach me to use a '43 map.

Where do you find guage and single-double track info? I can find that sort of thing for Europe but not for SEA.

All i know is it took 3 weeks for a unit with full supply to get to Victoria Point and it is going to take 5 weeks to get out of VP.
It did not take this long in the origional and i just think 3 weeks is too long.

Mike

Hi Andrew,

Norfolk Island is outside of your Malaria lines. However, it is a malaria base. You might want to look at this and see if you should move your malaria line a bit further south so it encompases Norfolk Is. (the Island between NZ, Australia and Noumea)

bc

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

Hi Andrew,

Norfolk Island is outside of your Malaria lines. However, it is a malaria base. You might want to look at this and see if you should move your malaria line a bit further south so it encompases Norfolk Is. (the Island between NZ, Australia and Noumea)

bc

Good catch. Norfolk should NOT be malarial. I will see what I can do - if anything - to make it non-malarial. Failing that I will revise the malaria line in the next map revision.

Andrew

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

Hi Andrew,

Norfolk Island is outside of your Malaria lines. However, it is a malaria base. You might want to look at this and see if you should move your malaria line a bit further south so it encompases Norfolk Is. (the Island between NZ, Australia and Noumea)

bc

Good catch. Norfolk should NOT be malarial. I will see what I can do - if anything - to make it non-malarial. Failing that I will revise the malaria line in the next map revision.

Andrew

Absolutely must be fixed !!! If Colleen McCullough gets Malaria before she writes the Caesar series ... then one of my most favorite groups of Novels might never be written !!! [:D]

Which bases are malarial is decided by a combination of hex ranges and some hard-wired location slot numbers. Mr Frag posted the actual code snippet somewhere but I attach it here anyway.

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

Which bases are malarial is decided by a combination of hex ranges and some hard-wired location slot numbers. Mr Frag posted the actual code snippet somewhere but I attach it here anyway.

I have that code snippet as well, and it looks like I can't make Norfolk Island non-malarial. Oh well...

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

That was built during the war? That will teach me to use a '43 map.

Where do you find guage and single-double track info? I can find that sort of thing for Europe but not for SEA.

All i know is it took 3 weeks for a unit with full supply to get to Victoria Point and it is going to take 5 weeks to get out of VP.
It did not take this long in the origional and i just think 3 weeks is too long.

Mike

My apologies Mike, I don't have specific information about the track gauge, but if it was built by the Japanese during the war, then I expect that it was narrow gauge, like the Burma railway was. I can't imagine the Japanese building standard gauge double track lines at that time and place.

It is true that getting in/out of VP takes a long time currently, but if we add a transport link to the hex then it will only take one day or so at the rail movement rate(for moving to VP at least. Moving from VP will still be slow), which I think is even worse. I don't yet see an easy solution for this one.

Hi Andrew,

first of all: Thanks for your amazing map!

I know that many bases were added and maybe adding even more would be too much out of various reasons, but nevertheless I would like to propose some more:

In India:

Poona, located two inland hexes SE of Bombay. Was a big city and major military base during WW2 (and before). Nice (and realistic) fall-back position and airfield location [of limited capacity (1), maximum buildable to (4)] and some industry was located there.

Cuttack, located inland to the south of Jamshedpur. Some industry (capital of Orissa and Bihar), important city at that time [limited capacity AF as Poona]

Btw, I hate that Yanam was choosen as port location by the designers. Never understood this choice (was even a French enclave then and I don't think that it was a location for anything of importance during WW2). Vizagapatam (one hex NE) would have been a more plausible choices because it had a decent port and one of the biggest RAF airbases was build in the vicinity (quite interesting choice, as there had been no AF before).

Another thing: No bases (or beaches) for Picton and Invercargill in NZ?

K

Andrew,

have you tried to get the CD or DVD set of National Geographic maps? They have some excellent pre-war and wartime maps of Southeast Asia. A very good one is the Philippines in 1945. Almost 100% 1941's situation. Other maps of the area quite good too. These maps may resolve quite a few issues.

Check their website. www.nationalgeographic.com

Regards,

Pascal

ORIGINAL: Pascal

Andrew,

have you tried to get the CD or DVD set of National Geographic maps? They have some excellent pre-war and wartime maps of Southeast Asia. A very good one is the Philippines in 1945. Almost 100% 1941's situation. Other maps of the area quite good too. These maps may resolve quite a few issues.

Check their website. www.nationalgeographic.com

Regards,

Pascal

Hi Pascal,

Actually I did buy their CD set while working on the first version of my map last year. It is an excellent collection. I mainly relied on their China, India, SE Asia and Pacific maps, though. I didn't make good use of the Philippines ones. I will take a look at them when doing the next map revision.

By the way - thanks again for your Pacific base data. I relied on it quite a bit when doing my base revisions.

Andrew

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

Hi Andrew,

first of all: Thanks for your amazing map!

I know that many bases were added and maybe adding even more would be too much out of various reasons, but nevertheless I would like to propose some more:

In India:

Poona, located two inland hexes SE of Bombay. Was a big city and major military base during WW2 (and before). Nice (and realistic) fall-back position and airfield location [of limited capacity (1), maximum buildable to (4)] and some industry was located there.

Cuttack, located inland to the south of Jamshedpur. Some industry (capital of Orissa and Bihar), important city at that time [limited capacity AF as Poona]

Btw, I hate that Yanam was choosen as port location by the designers. Never understood this choice (was even a French enclave then and I don't think that it was a location for anything of importance during WW2). Vizagapatam (one hex NE) would have been a more plausible choices because it had a decent port and one of the biggest RAF airbases was build in the vicinity (quite interesting choice, as there had been no AF before).

Another thing: No bases (or beaches) for Picton and Invercargill in NZ?

K

Thanks! Useful info on India. There is definitely cause to add another base or two to the subcontinent. I will make a note of your suggestions for further consideration. As you say, however, bases are being added all the time, slowly eating away at the empty base slots. I sometimes feel like King Canute ordering the tide to stop...

Andrew, If you happen to still be taking notes for any future map updates I just realized that the base and major battle of Wau is not on the map. Should be located right behind Lae and Salamaua. I wish I had thought of this during your last update but just thought Id mention it. This base of course was pretty important in UV. This is where the Kanga Force (is this unit in CHS???) gaurded the trail to Port Moresby...

Should be located around the highlighted hex on screenshot behind Lae.

The last Japanese offensive in New Guinea was against the Australian forward base at Wau. It had been used by guerrillas of Kanga Force to harass Japanese forces based at Lae and Salamaua, but by early 1943 was seen as a key to large-scale operations in south-eastern New Guinea.

The attack was undertaken by the Okabe Detachment, led by Major General OKABE Teru. Having pushed the Australians beyond Mubo, the Japanese used a little-known track to go around the Australian defences and launch a surprise attack.

The defence of Wau rested on the airlifting of reinforcements from Port Moresby. Weather over the Wau–Bulolo Valley was notoriously unstable. Cloud closed in at the start of the battle on 28 January, and the Australians feared losing the base. By the time it cleared the following morning, the Japanese were within two miles of the vital airfield. However, that day 1,000 reinforcements were delivered and the Australians held the airfield. Artillery was also delivered and, along with fighter-bombers from Port Moresby, began pounding the Japanese.

The Okabe Detachment suffered over 1,000 battle casualties. Survivors fell into retreat. The Australians had thus secured the base from which to launch the counter-offensive against Lae and Salamaua.

http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/remember.ns ... enDocument

Regarding Victoria Point: I have seen that railway as well. It is in Thailand, as opposed to Victoria Point itself, which is across the other side of an inlet, and in Burma. I have no idea how Victoria Point was supplied - was that Thai railway, which as Lemurs says stops short, used for supplying Victoria Point? Or was it supplied purely by sea?

Victoria Point was surely supplied by sea. The rail spur in question was not for international trade, but to support local trade with mines and plantations. There is no easy way to get to Victoria point from the end of this spur. If there had been, Japan would not have chosen the route they did - over Three Pagoda's Pass - for the Burma Siam Railroad - which operated for 18 months or so. .

There was a second route considered - farther NORTH - not to Victoria point - from a spur line that runs toward the Burmese border. There the problem was mountains. But it might have been better than the route attempted. Both these routes were considered historically by Imperial rail builders - and I have not found a reference to a similar project to Victoria Point. I have two books on these railroads and I can dig if anyone is interested in specifics - but I think the routes that were strongly considered had roads already in place along natural paths made by rivers.

Regarding the Philippines: I don't have much knowledge of the Philippines, for which I used the same map sources I used for the rest of the map. I will take a closer look at Lamon Bay to see whether the map needs to be revised here. I might actually ask Don Bowen about this - he is the authority on the Philippines.

I collect maps on the Philippines and have visited most of the principle points of interest. The idea there are no roads to Limon Bay is false, but the roads of the period are not exactly highways. A FIRST CLASS road (e.g. the highway North from Manila along Linguyan Gulf to San Fernando)
are classic two lane paved roads 16 feet wide with 10 ton bridges - an actual historic US standard. Good roads - like the Naguilian Road from Buang (on Linguyan Gulf) to Baguio City (the summer capital and principle mining district) is gravel on a good foundation, also 16 feet wide with 10 ton bridges. Almost all other "roads" are only 8 feet wide, intended for one way traffic at a time, and sometimes there are no bridges (you ford, you ferry, or if a military unit you build a temporary bridge which you then pick up when you leave) - but if there are bridges they are rated at 5 tons (these ratings are printed in English on the concrete supports - EVERYTHING official in the Philippines is in English - even today - by law). There were two unpaved roads into Lemon Bay area in 1941 - one from the South and one from the West - and a number of tracks. Japan actually landed here in force - an entire division - and not because it was isolated like an island - but because it mattered.

I would like to make 1 more observation. A while back, you told me the reasoning behind putting the rail line from Whitehorse to Juneau. I totally agree with your reasoning that inter-island shipping would be about as good for supplying Juneau as a rail line (I think this was the reasoning).

there has never been a road or rail line to Juneau - although sometimes it is proposed today - it is too expensive to actually build! The mountains make invasion impractical. Putting a rail line there is not really historical - or even modern.

There was a rail line to Whitehorse - a narrow gage line - and it mattered too - it was taken over by the US Army and it handled a great deal of freight and traffic. It ran from a point considerably north of Juneau - and I thought it was on your map. There was historically a US fort there - the famous Chilikoot Barracks - and it was still a company post when the war began. Alaska once had another railroad as well - but it was gone before WWII began. It ran up the Copper River to Kennikot - a copper mine. Congress considered running it from there to Fairbanks, but a different route was selected, based on a failed private railroad - from Seward to ANchorage.

On Victoria Point, the rail spur ends at a dock on the Thai side of the inlet between Thailand and Burma(Victoria Point). The inlet is less than 2 miles wide at its widest point and too shallow for subs.

Very large scale maps indicate this is true - today. And most railroad building was done long ago - so it may well have been true then. Certainly waterborne traffic was possible. But it may not have been very common - it is not today. The economics of the area face different directions. This is also not one of the areas Thailand claimed or occupied. [Thailand occupied northern Malaya - which was really Thai territory probably wrongly occupied by the British - and Western Cambodia - with almost as good a claim - and a good deal of Eastern Burma up north - with NO historical justification whatever. But this rather imperial minded Thailand did NOT claim Victoria Point or any part of the Panhandle of Burma, an area with which it had little commerce or any other interaction.]

You make a good point that, unimpeded by defensive forces, it would take only a day or so to move along Route 1 to Manila. The problem that I see is the placement of Lamon Bay adjacent to Manila (due to hex size). A good road connection would allow the Japanese to exert a zone of control over Manila immediately after landing - immediately cutting off all American forces to the North.

That's as far as I can take the analysis - anyone else??

It didn't take Japan long to reach Manila - in spite of elements of two division in their path - a lot less time than is possible in the game. So I have problems with this isolation. I am not sure why the zone of control issue is a problem? A ZOC represents something real, like patrols, and surely that was a possibility? But if you have a problem with that, why not make a connection SOUTH from Lemon Bay but NOT West? That is, SW. That way movement is possible to the spine of the island, and somewhat hampered to Manila - you move two hexes vice one - but both by road???

OK. One further question: Did the Japanese use the railway to move to Victoria Point?

The Japanese used A railroad to Victoria Point - but not THAT railroad. And only AFTER they came by sea. They operated up and down the Burma Railroad - to the north - and from its end by a road along the coast.

First, the City of Whittier is an ice free port located in NW Prince William Sound that was devloped early war as a hedge against the loss of a vulnerable trestle bridge on a section of the Alaska RR from Seward to Anchorage. It should be located in the hex to the east of Anchorage (114/28)with a rail spur (no road) going to Anchorage (they actually dug a 2 mile tunnel to get to the port). Or maybe just run the railroad from Seward into this hex and then west into Anchorage since whittier is leass than 6 air miles from the mainline. Probably a af0/pt2 with a 0/1 to start with would work fine for Whittier.

While a road to Whittier did not then exist - it was just built via the same tunnel expanded - you could ALWAYS drive there! The Alaska RR had a strange open air station with no people at Portage where you could drive up onto flatcars, and they ran to Whittier several times a day - and back. Until the new road was built!

This point is raised every now and again. In the case of Skagway, I decided to just assume that units and supplies would be able to easily travel between Skagway and Juneau using local ferry transport, and that this could be represented by not having a separate base at Skagway and extending the rail line to Juneau. Since units only travel 90 miles per day maximum this did not seem unreasonable, and it allowed me to again save a base slot by not having a separate Skagway base.

IF it is a choice, and IF base slots are an issue, THEN it is better to kill the railroad and isolate Juneau. It is very false to have it on the land communications grid. I like the White Pass and Yukon RR - but not enough to have it run to Juneau - which it could never go to.