really pissed (I paid for download and physical copy)

[beserko]

I know reading is a skill or I wouldn't be upset about not having a printed manual.
Yes I don't bother to read EULA's anymore(I am not a lawer) but trying to figure out some of these games is equivalent to a masters level history thesis course.
As to the manual changeing.... it doesn't really change that much. I ordered Gary Grigsby's World at War (physical) and got a wonderful manual! Quess I was hoping for the same.
I do support Matrix I have most of your games on my hard drive. In retrospect I am sorry about the vent. If you had seen my jaw drop when I eagerly opened the package and looked inside last night you would have forgiven me.

You know what they say

If you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME

[beserko]

OH P.S.
I'm off to Kinkos, I'll figure this game out yet!

[Hanal]

Good point Malagant!

[rich12545]

Personally I thought the order page was pretty clear. It told exactly what you get with each option. Nowhere did it come close to mentioning a printed manual.

I have a cruddy little Lexmark printer that cost me all of $29 at Walmart. With it I printed out the manual in living color and it cost maybe $4-5 in paper and ink. Then I punched holes and put the pages in a notebook. Voila - a printed manual.[>:]

[tgb]

How many bitching about lack of a manual live in the States? Because guess what - Matrix support has a toll-free number. Since I was unclear on whether the boxed version of WitP came with a manual, a 5-minute free phone call clarified everything.

[ravinhood]

ORIGINAL: tgb

How many bitching about lack of a manual live in the States? Because guess what - Matrix support has a toll-free number. Since I was unclear on whether the boxed version of WitP came with a manual, a 5-minute free phone call clarified everything.

Shouldn't have to call should get a damn manual with the game, any game for the extra $10.

[rich12545]

If you check typical shipping and handling costs you'll find them to be about $7-8. That's where most of your $10 goes. The rest of goes to the cost of the cd, the case and time to copy the game onto the cd. I think the price is about right and is designed for those people who want a quality copy instead of just putting it on one of their own cdr.

[Malagant]

Rich,

That extra $10 does NOT include shipping, you have to pay another $8 on top of that.

From the DR site:

PC Physical Shipment ($49.99)
Digital Download ($39.99)
Physical Shipment Plus Download ($49.99)

From my invoice:

Product Qty Price
---------------------------------------------------
Crown Of Glory 1 $ 49.99
Crown of Glory - Physical + Digital 1 $ 0.00
---------------------------------------------------
Sub Total: $ 49.99
Shipping: $ 7.45
Total: $ 57.44

$17.44 for a DVD case?!

[Capt Cliff]

Simple, no printed manual then no buy de game!

Games that are off the beaten track, non-standard, non-hex, non-grougnard need a manual.

[rich12545]

ORIGINAL: Malagant

Rich,

That extra $10 does NOT include shipping, you have to pay another $8 on top of that.

From the DR site:

PC Physical Shipment ($49.99)
Digital Download ($39.99)
Physical Shipment Plus Download ($49.99)

From my invoice:

Product Qty Price
---------------------------------------------------
Crown Of Glory 1 $ 49.99
Crown of Glory - Physical + Digital 1 $ 0.00
---------------------------------------------------
Sub Total: $ 49.99
Shipping: $ 7.45
Total: $ 57.44

$17.44 for a DVD case?!

Oh, ok. Well, once I saw the multi-version wasn't a good deal I didn't look further and ASSUMED the $49.99 was the total price. I guess you can really make a mistake when you assume something.[:D]

[Malagant]

I guess you can really make a mistake when you assume something.

Or when you're not given all the facts required to make the right decision...[:D]

[rich12545]

Correct. But all the facts were given. You were told exactly what you would receive for whichever you ordered. If you assumed you would get something extra that wasn't mentioned, then it's not the company's fault. This is one of life's lessons. Don't assume you're going to get something unless it says so. Just because it doesn't explicitly say you're not going to get it doesn't mean you will. [:D]

[MarcelJV]

I recall a post like this in the World at war forum as well. I think you have to expect now a days that if you do not want to spend $60.00 on a game, then you will not get a manual. You get one on the cd or download so you can print out what you need. 1/2 the time the manual is not even correct for the release of the actual game. Also by the posts of games that do have manuals, people do not read them. As at IT professional I can tell you that people do not read the manual.

Sorry you thought you were getting more but when I downloaded I assumed that I would not get a manual.

[Malagant]

ORIGINAL: rich12545

Correct. But all the facts were given. You were told exactly what you would receive for whichever you ordered. If you assumed you would get something extra that wasn't mentioned, then it's not the company's fault. This is one of life's lessons. Don't assume you're going to get something unless it says so. Just because it doesn't explicitly say you're not going to get it doesn't mean you will. [:D]

Please don't be so patronizing as to tell me about life's lessons. I assure you I don't need your input in that regard. Let's stick to the topic and refrain from personal insults, ok?

The other Matrix games I ordered that DID come with a manual did NOT explicitly say that they came with a manual. The games from other manufacturers that I've purchased over the last 25 years have not explicitly said they included a manual, but they did. Now I purchase this game and it does NOT.

Did I (and others) make an assumption about the inclusion of a manual? Yes, we did. Was it a reasonable assumption based on industry standards and two and half decades of experience buying computer games, including other Matrix titles? Yes, it was.

Matrix (and Western Civilization Software) can either accept the input and have DR more clearly indicate the inclusion or exclusion of a printed manual, or the can not. If they choose the latter, then repeat business will suffer.

Your "life's lessons" do not factor in to that equation at all.

[rich12545]

I didn't write to be patronizing and I'm sorry if you took it that way.

The point is the order page told you EXACTLY what you'd get. No more and no less.

The computer game industry, especially wargames, has changed over the last few years. More and more companies such as Matrix, Battlefront and others no longer include a printed manual with some of their games. That has become standard. When ordering, if it doesn't specifically say it includes a printed manual, I've gotten to the point where I make sure because, more and more, it doesn't and it simply doesn't pay to assume it does.

[Jordan]

Well, I was expecting a fold out poster of Manuela Arcuri. For those of you who aren't familiar..ouch.

I didn't expect a manual. Printed it. Bound it. Puzzled it.

What would be cool would be a fold out map or possibly a digital version to download and put together. My wife would much prefer that decorating my wall than a poster of Ms. Arcuri. The former would elicit eyes rolling, the other....well.

[Malagant]

Damn it, Jordan, you're going to get me fired!

I did a goggle search for the Ms. Arcuri, and got a whole bunch of NSFW pics...just as my boss walked by! [:-]

[oi_you_nutter]

lads,

in another thread i nagged was about the lack of printed CoG manual in the physical shipment from DigitalRiver, a number of issues were discussed in the thread with the key point being clarity of what is included in a game, depending on how you buy it

in that thread Erik Rutins said this:

HTTR is all game on demand now, but you're right that previously it was not as we went through our remaining retail stock from the original release.

I will work with DR next week to make the description explicit as far as a manual is concerned and see if we can do something even better (with pictures) in the long term.

Regards,

- Erik

<see post 17 here>

GGWaW is similar to HTTR, if you buy the retail (boxed) version you get a manual, if you get it from DigitalRiver you get a pdf. tell us exactly what we are getting and we will be happy [:)]

perhaps Erik can comment on this

[Jordan]

[X(] Sorry..but it was worth it wasn't it? Tastefully done, nothing over the top. (That's a pun btw).

[rich12545]

ORIGINAL: Malagant

Damn it, Jordan, you're going to get me fired!

I did a goggle search for the Ms. Arcuri, and got a whole bunch of NSFW pics...just as my boss walked by! [:-]

LOL. Same thing happened to me just as my wife walked by. That was not fun. She made some assumptions that really weren't true. [:D]