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ORIGINAL: CobraAus

to Don or Andrew with the possible addition of soviet ships we would now need Repair
added to Vladivostok and Petropavlovsk . I have not found any detail yet on how big a repair
facility these ports had but they would have some. maybe Subchaser might have some details
+ any idea what experience to set the various class's too.

Cobra Aus

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Of course we would need to research when the MTAR arrived in the Far East...

Anyone have thoughts?

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Nice Cobra. Have you seen any documentation on Minelayers in the pacific fleet to warrant their addition or did you just put them in for grins?


Anyone have thoughts?

Nice Cobra. Have you seen any documentation on Minelayers in the pacific fleet to warrant their addition or did you just put them in for grins?

June 1941 I beleive the Pacific fleet was 2 Flotilla Leaders, 11 Destroyers, 86 Subs, 6 Guardships, 8 Minelayers, 30 Minesweepers, 135 MTB's, and 19 sub-chasers. But nearly all Russian Flotilla Leaders and Destroyers laid mines too.

ORIGINAL: Subchaser

Pacific Fleet 12/41 (without Amur Flotilla Aviation Corps)

None of these ships left Pacific before 12/41, more ships (Dalzavod and Komsolmolskiy SSZ built) were commissioned during this period.

2 Flotilla leaders (Baku, Tbilisi)
7 Destroyers (Samson, Voikov, Razyashiy, Rastoropniy, Rezviy, Recordniy, Ryaniy)
6 Guardships (Vyuga, Metel, Burun, Grom, Zarniza, Molnia)
8 Minelayers (Argun, Astrakhan, Voroshilovsk, Gigeega, Merezha, Kapitan Makeev, Arsenal, Vokhtoga)
2 Net layers (Gromoboy, Yeletsk)
19 Patrol gunboats and subchasers
76 minesweepers
135 PT-boats (mostly G-5, SH-4 types)
85 Submarines (37 “M” class, 35 “Scsh” Class, 13 “L” class, so the real strength was 48 ocean subs)
23 Transports *
12 Tankers. *

* These ships were assigned directly to Pacific fleet, total Soviet merchant capacity in the Pacific was much larger of course.

VVSTOF (Pacific Fleet Air Force) 22/06/41

Il-4 – 87 (74 ready)
SB-2 – 99 (83)
I-16 – 173 (154)
I-153 – 69 (69)
I-15bis – 93 (82)
MBR-2 – 218 (174)
MRD-6 – 8 (6)
R-6 – 3 (2)
R-5 – 8 (0)

758 aircraft total, 650 aircraft ready for combat.

From june ’41 till December ‘42 VVSTOF received 119 new aircraft, 61 IL-4 (including 32 IL-4t in april 42 when 14th BAP (army unit) was reassigned to VVSTOF, 57 MiG-3 and one MRD-6 flying boat. During the same period VVSTOF suffered 73 operational losses because of intensive training program, so strength raised only on 46 aircraft.

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Does this last paragraph mean that the IL-4T did not make it's apearance until April 42' or is that just the date that those reinforcements arrived with the 32 IL-4Ts among them?

ORIGINAL: Subchaser

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Does this last paragraph mean that the IL-4T did not make it's apearance until April 42' or is that just the date that those reinforcements arrived with the 32 IL-4Ts among them?

Torpedo bombers that VVSTOF had before april’42 were DB-3t, Il-4 was deep modification of DB-3 and torpedo variant of this aircraft (Il-4T) arrived to Far East only in 42.

My understanding is that the DB-3s were just renamed IL-4? So in effect the same airplane. At least from a database standpoint wouldn't it be redundant if we were to model both the DB-3 and IL-4?

ORIGINAL: treespider

My understanding is that the DB-3s were just renamed IL-4? So in effect the same airplane. At least from a database standpoint wouldn't it be redundant if we were to model both the DB-3 and IL-4?

From a book i have...


In fact in 1940 the Soviets redesignated the DB-3F to Il-4.

Shortly after April 1940 "...the Soviet designation system by aircraft function (DB-dalnii-bombardirovshchik, long range bomber) was abandoned and replaced by a system based on the leader of the resposnible design bureau, and the DB-3F thus became the IL-4."

So IF we decide to model the DB-3T or the IL-4T it would be redundant to differentiate them in the database.

As it stands now IL-4s are already in the game on Dec 7, 41' albeit without the torpedo capability that they clearly had in the MTAPs of the Soviet Pacific Naval Air Arm. Not sure how to implement this without running into the problem of having large numbers of Torpedo bombers that weren't fielded historically.

However as I mentioned in a previous post, I have had opportunity to play the Russians in a PBEM. In that game I upgraded all IL-4 units (I think there is only one Regiment to begin with, maybe two?) to Pe-2s as soon as I was able. Currently I have ALL Pe-2 units and IL-2 units, excpet one SB-2 reinforcement that cannot upgrade to anything.

If the IL-4 supply was low enough such that only one or two MTAPs could be reliably supplied, that might be the most realistic way to achieve a balance.