Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: JanSorensen
During the first couple of years factories are what limits German production - and its during those years that production is really importent. So I am not sure how you can say that extra factories would not matter much.

In "regular" games, barring any extraordinary events, factories never limit German production.

Germans start with 31 factory points (factories x national multiplier) and 19 networked resources in the original game. So they may as well start with 80 factories, they would not have enough resources to power them all.

By the time they conquer France, Holland, Danemark and Norway and repair everything there they will have 28 "networked" resources - capable of feeding 28 factory points. But with Vichy and captured France factories they will also have 37 FPs to feed!

From that moment on it's free for all. I assume Germans will not be able to use "unnetworked" resources in West Med and Italian East Africa freely, as any WA player with half a brain will at least contest those resources. But they will probably take 2 res in Yugoslavia (total 30) and are free to try to take anything else (that's what this game is all about [;)]). Even with Spanish and Greek resources though they are below the required limit to bring full factories into play.

Germans may be able to grab additional resources in many places (but WA player's task is to stop them). If they grab 37 resources by Fall 41, they are well on their way to auto victory, so Hungarian factory is the least of problems Allied player is facing.

By Winter 42 when Germans go on x3 multiplier on German factories, factories should not matter at all (if they do, then the game should be over by auto victory). Hungarian factory will always have it's little multiplier of x1, and is capable of producing only militia. In 42, if they keep France etc. Germans will have to feed 47 FPs with as many resources. With Hungarian factory in my mod they will have to feed 48 FPs. With some captured Russian factories even more, but again it's the resources that will limit their production.

If Germans are capable of feeding their 47 (or 48, 50 does not matter) FPs with resources, then Japanese should make short work of taking DEI, and bringing PP to 70+ thus deciding the game on auto victory. I did exactly that in my games many times.

It is worth noting that in my mod I reduced the starting militia in Hungary and Bulgaria. Removed total of two militias. It will take two turns for Hungarians with their factory to produce them and bring Axis militia count to original level. In fact those changes in my mod reduced Axis strength overall, unless they realy manage to capture incredible amount of resources early on to make it count.

I can't see how it can be done, but even if it can, you'll need three turns (before 42!!) for Hungarian factory to really make good use of it to say it really helped the Axis cause in anything more than being pretty icon on the map [;)]. All this is practically impossible. [;)]

(Also worth noting is that in my mod Axis requires 72 PPs for auto victory).

Lebatron sorry if I hijacked your thread [8D]

Oleg

quote:
During the first couple of years factories are what limits German production - and its during those years that production is really importent. So I am not sure how you can say that extra factories would not matter much.

[To which Oleg replies]
In "regular" games, barring any extraordinary events, factories never limit German production.

I think you mean production for AV purposes Oleg - where free trade doesn't count. However, the lack of factories does limit actual German production. Basically, from turn 2 on, the Germans will have more than enough resources (if you include free trade) to operate all their factories at full capacity.

ORIGINAL: Forwarn45
I think you mean production for AV purposes Oleg - where free trade doesn't count. However, the lack of factories does limit actual German production. Basically, from turn 2 on, the Germans will have more than enough resources (if you include free trade) to operate all their factories at full capacity.

Correct, I didn't count free trade, all I care about is what counts against AV limit. Free trade is for wussies, real leaders do not rely on trade, they take their resources using their military strength [;)]

Joking aside, still I think what you say is overly ambitious. If everything goes perfect for Germans, AND if WA player does not contest their empire, Germans can have barely enough resources to feed their factories from turn 2 or 3. But as I said I assume WA player will *at least* take Italian Africa and disrupt the West Med link (thus denying 2 or 3 resources I am not sure right now). Not to mention bombing, raids and possible counter attacks by WA.

Also, in my mod I took care to make 1-2-3 conquest of Spain harder, and I guess Spain will not fall before turns 3 or 4 if German player pursues this strategy in my mod, thus further delaying "full production paradise" you talk about. He then needs two turns to make militia units I removed, and by turn 8 it's 42, prod modifier goes to x3 and it's whole new ball game.

Hey if the German player is so lucky and good, and if WA player is so hare brained to let him, then yes, the German player will enjoy the full benefits of mighty x1 modifier Hungarian factory for like couple turns [;)] In those conditions I think he deserves it.

O.

Hi Guys,
I just updated Strait Deal. It now includes map fixes which are going to be in the next official patch. But why wait that long[;)]Check out what's new in the readme above. Got 3 pics to show you.

Another pic

Another

Hi Guys,
I just made a small update. It’s only 2 changes that really have nothing to do with how the game plays. First, I finished the last of the border work on Afghanistan, and second I combined the two readme files into one. Functionally the borders at Afghan were working properly in V1.3, I just did not have all the cosmetic fixes in that release. The pic below shows the new border I added. Now its complete. In my new readme I decided to drop the separate version numbers for the two mods. When Franco's Alliance was made, I was at V1.2 for Strait Deal, but decided to name Franco V1.0 since that was really its first release. Shortly after, I went to 1.3 and 1.1 respectively. I want to end any possible confusion, so Franco's Alliance and Strait Deal are now the same version number. Installing 1.4 over 1.3 will do nothing to existing games so I would suggest go ahead and get the update.

Now that I have a combined readme it will no longer be necessary to maintain two separate posts for my mods. So I'm going to delete the other thread.

Franco's Alliance looks like a big step forward; can't wait to try it against a human opponent. And a very heartfelt thank you for the tip on zoom levels - now I can see the map!

I like the increased incentive to take on China; wonder how well the Chinese will stand up to the increased attention over repeated playings?

With all the talk about Finland's historical reticence to engage in offensive operations, it seems the realistic solution for the Finns would be to make unfreezing Finland even more restrictive. If the Finnish government lived in fear of post-war reprisal by a vengeful USSR then they probably wouldn't have freed their troops until Leningrad AND Moscow had fallen. If they simply weren't willing to participate in campaigns of military aggression, then it seems their "at start" forces should be locked in place permanently, while additional German units could move into/thru Finland (perhaps that requires a significant change to the game engine though).

I agree with Autoset that the Portugese army is too much; also agree with you that 1 INF (or MIL more likely) is not a sufficient deterrent to a WA invasion of Portugal. But wouldn't unfreezing Spain - perhaps even Vichy - provide that deterrent?

Great job.

additional German units could move into/thru Finland

i agree, it is particularly important for the ger if they didnt launch barbarossa b4 Wi43 but wanted to defend finland, its politically freezed allied. but dont know whether its feasible to be added in a mod.

AN

I like the additional resources in china, it really makes it a more tempting target.

perhaps there needs to be a way to encourage an earlier attack into the DEI? perhaps increasing the resources there in some way also?

spain was and allied country almost neutral.even thoe canaris tried to make it and axis nation.it didnt work out.like your mod .