Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: 33Vyper

But how do you change the USSR into an ally of Japan? Is it possible to create new nations?

Any Russian ships on the side of Japan would have to be called Japanese ships. And no, you can't create more nations.

If we forget all the political and military events that must have happened differently for this scenario to have actually developed in the real war, this is what I´d like to achieve:

- Having the Soviets active from the start force the Japanese player to pay attention to the north in order to avoid serious attacks, or even invasion, of the Home Islands
- To make up for the added Soviet forces, the Chinese are weakened as are the British in the west
- The Australians and New Zealanders are strengthened to somewhat balance the weaker British
- The US is weakened early on and maybe even slightly stronger later on, but later than in the stock game

Why would I do this? The biggest driver for me is to create a different type of game compared to the stock game, and I hope this scenario may create some different decisions from both sides

This being said, I realise the probability of a low-intensity Barabarossa is, well, unlikely is being kind, impossible is a better word. On the other hand, the main thing for me is not to create a probable scenario, but a different one

I guess a neutral Soviet would be nice, but given the constraints in what can be edited it´s only possible with house rules just as you say, and being a newbie, I find it´s hard enough to cope with the learning curve for the "real" rules - On the other hand, once I get the thing ready enough for a release, I would be delighted to see others make their version of it

-Thank you for clarification. I´m a big fan of alternate history, however, I think that once you create such a scenario, some degree of plausibility would be kept. An USSR active since the beginning is plausible, a low intensity Barbarossa is not (althought you could argue that the outside world events would be simply irrelevant). A no Barbarossa scenario would be more compatible with USSR being active from the start. The way that external world developments would influence this scenario would be important to determine how many divisions, aircraft and so on, the USSR would receive and how many assets would be in USA/UK hands, of course, a coherent outside world isn´t necessary for the game to be fun, but would be a desirable thing. If you work with a non Barbarossa option you will simplify the things because you could assume that the Soviets still had a big garrison to defend themselves against Germany while a few troops would be sent to Japan. On the other hand, it would be nice to create a "history line" for events in Europe/Africa. Will Germany be defeated? Will Germany achieve a settlement with the allies. It would be likely that the Germans would be able to win the ME campaign if they used the extensive resources they hoarded for Barbarossa. In that case, how would the strategic bombing campaign against German develop? Will the new B-29´s used to attack Germany (that is a worst threat to USA than Japan?). In the absence of a German threat, would the Soviets keep their tradition of emphasis in strategic bombers, for instance, mass producing the Pe-8 for strategic bombing against Japan? We assume that Soviet production would follow different priorities, maybe a bigger naval building program? They were building 60000 ton Battleships in early 40´s, if I remember correctly.I think that, if you developed more your idea we will have an even better scenario.

ORIGINAL: Bombur
A no Barbarossa scenario would be more compatible with USSR being active from the start. The way that external world developments would influence this scenario would be important to determine how many divisions, aircraft and so on, the USSR would receive and how many assets would be in USA/UK hands, of course, a coherent outside world isn´t necessary for the game to be fun, but would be a desirable thing.

That´s a good alternative. I was working on the scenario yesterday (Specifically with the Soviet ships - Thanks Cobra Aus). My current plan is to add significant Soviet ground forces from the start to simulate that no forces had to be sent to defend Moscow and Stalingrad, and also to create a rather large continous force of reinforcements with poor experience to simulate rapid Soviet force build up when under threat

The no Barabarossa option would also require a significant weakening of the British forces, and it may be necessary to contemplate on some kind of "lower quality" replacements to balance the game. Ideas?

Will Germany be defeated? Will Germany achieve a settlement with the allies. It would be likely that the Germans would be able to win the ME campaign if they used the extensive resources they hoarded for Barbarossa. In that case, how would the strategic bombing campaign against German develop? Will the new B-29´s used to attack Germany (that is a worst threat to USA than Japan?). In the absence of a German threat, would the Soviets keep their tradition of emphasis in strategic bombers, for instance, mass producing the Pe-8 for strategic bombing against Japan? We assume that Soviet production would follow different priorities, maybe a bigger naval building program? They were building 60000 ton Battleships in early 40´s, if I remember correctly.I think that, if you developed more your idea we will have an even better scenario.

Now we´re talking! This starts to sound really interesting. Let´s elaborate on the alternatives a little:

- Germany is defeated at some point -> Extremely low levels of allied (excl Soviet) troops initially. Significant increase of British, French, Dutch and US units later on when Germany surrenders. Not necessarily so for Soviet due to Stalin's fear of allied operations in communist Europe

- German settlement with the allies -> Similar effect as the first alternative, but less extreme(?)

- Germany winning in North Africa and the Mediterranean -> Lowered levels of British troops initially. Maybe even the addition of a German (Japanese gamewise) base in the far far west where German (Jap) units could pose a threat from that direction. Requires map modifications, so it may be for coming releases, but not impossible at all. Increased Soviet presence throughout the whole game. What´s the impact on the US forces? Less war ships and planes, but not so much effects on the availability of ground forces?

- Any scenario where Germany is winning, would likely reduce availability of B29's until Germany is eliminated (whatever the cause for the elimination is). Replacing these with the Pe-8 would be interesting. I looked at adding them to the Soviets yesterday, but didn´t get that far. Ideas for specs is appreciated. As for the US strategic bombers I could even take it one step further and delay/reduce "everything". Already did little of that when reducing the B17 levels and letting several units fly the Bolo at the start of the game

- Soviet ships. I´d like them to have both some kind of CV as well as a BB or two more. It will be interesting to see what the Japanese initial strategy will be when there´s significant naval forces in close vincinity to the Home Islands from the start

Have a look at this link for the latest updates of the scenario. I´m not at what stage some kind of playtesting should be appropriate, but I can make the files available to anyone interested in contributing or testing. Just let me know

/Robert